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  #41  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:33 PM
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

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Originally Posted by MissBrattified View Post
English is one of the hardest languages to learn, ranking right up there with Chinese. Yes, if I moved to another country, I would try to learn the language--but just so I could communicate in order to survive--not to become a linguist in the new language.

Some people are just better at learning new things than others. Some of the people in our class pick up the concepts right away, and others are still struggling with the basics after months of class. One of the things we're doing is studying the test they have to take for citizenship (they have to live here for 6 years first). Newcomers who can barely understand English are expected to pass a test that most teenagers entering college couldn't pass.

I agree that learning English needs to be a priority, mainly as a survival skill. However, I resent the superiority complex that comes across in the diatribes of those who look down on anyone with a heavy accent.

I don't hear people ranting against people with heavy accents. I do hear rants against people who simply don't try to learn the language.

I stopped at a taco stand the other day, and the people working there could not communicate with me on the most basic topics. I simply wanted to know which of their taco options was beef. Finally I just pointed at one of the options and went for it. I still am not sure what I ate.

If I were *moving* to another country, planning to be a citizen there, I would certainly try to be fluent in the language. I wouldn't want to merely know enough to survive.
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  #42  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:37 PM
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
I heard an report for our state that if they do pay taxes the benefits they receive is more then the taxes paid to the state, so the cost of taking care of them is more then what there paying in.
If that is indeed the case ... which I think should be looked at a case by case basis ... again keeping in mind they do contribute ...

if that would be true for more than half of the American public that does not pay income taxes .... according to recent studies published this week ...
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  #43  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:41 PM
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seguidordejesus seguidordejesus is offline
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

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Originally Posted by DAII View Post
1. "Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted.... "Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Response: The email begins with the fallacy that illegal aliens are being paid off the books. According to the 2005 Economic Report of the President, more than “half of undocumented immigrants are believed to be working ‘on the books,’ so they contribute to the tax rolls but are ineligible for almost all Federal public assistance programs and most major joint Federal-state programs.” You can view the report here.

2. Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year Now take 30% away for state federal tax. Joe Legal now has $31,231.00. Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Response: It is simply false to say illegal aliens do not pay taxes. The IRS collects income tax from all aliens- irrespective of their legal status- who earn income in the United States. Taxes are generally collected through payroll withholdings and submitted tax returns. Some aliens, including undocumented aliens, are not eligible to receive a social security number for work purposes. Nevertheless, if they work, they will accrue federal income tax liability under the IRS code. To facilitate compliance with income tax law, the IRS developed the ITIN. You can read more about ITINs here. As of June 2006, the IRS had issued more than 7 million ITINs. Read more here. The IRS states that the tax return filing compliance rate for ITIN holders is about 75% . Here at page 52. Illegal aliens also pay taxes through payroll withholding with false, fraudulent, or stolen Social Security Numbers. This money is kept by the government in a “suspense file” and not returned to the illegal alien. The Social Security Administration states that these files represented $56.1 billion in earnings and $7 billion in social security payroll taxes. See here:
http://www.ssa.gov/legislation/testimony_031004.html.



3. Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00. Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.


Response: Ostensibly, the author of this email is referencing Medi-Cal. According to its official government website, “Medi-Cal is California's Medicaid program. This is a public health insurance program which provides needed health care services for low-income individuals including families with children, seniors, persons with disabilities, foster care, pregnant women, and low income people with specific diseases such as tuberculosis, breast cancer or HIV/AIDS. Medi-Cal is financed equally by the State and federal government.” Eligibility for this program is based upon income. According to the guidance letter for the California Department of Human Services all aliens (legal or otherwise) must go through a verification process and only aliens lawfully residing in California may receive full benefits. Illegal aliens can only obtain emergency service and some child delivery services. Interestingly, it is quite possible that neither Joe nor Jose could qualify for Medi-Cal because of their income.

4. Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays for food. $1,000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.00. Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.


Response: Illegal immigrants are not eligible for federal entitlement welfare programs like Food Stamps. Indeed, even legal immigrants are barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years by the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, Pub. L. No. 104-193, 110 Stat. 2105 (Aug. 22, 1996) (codified as 8 USC §§1601 et seq.).



5. Joe Legal pays rent. $1,000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00. Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays rent. $500.00 per month (section 8 housing). $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00.


Response: Unfortunately, this bears repeating. Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Federal welfare benefits like Section 8.

6. Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work. Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family (and eat out!).

Response: This is an unsupported allegation and is simply made up by the author of this email.


7. Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored breakfast & lunch, and they also qualify to be "bused to school" at tax payer expense.


Response: According to the USDA Eligibility Manual for School Meals, these types of school lunches are available for children that are: 1) members of a household that gets welfare; 2) enrolled in Head Start because of low income; 3) homeless, 4) migrants; or 5) runaways. We know nothing about Jose’s children given the fact pattern. Assuming however, they were born in the United States, they are U.S. Citizens and, provided they meet the guidelines, they are eligible for such programs. But according to the fact pattern given, neither Joe nor Jose would be eligible for free or reduced school lunches under the latest guidelines. Also, since this fact pattern is in California, it is very likely that any bus services are going to be sharply curtailed because of budget cuts.

8. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children have to find a way to get to school and go home after school as, "latch-key kids" with no adult supervision.

Response: The voters of California approved all types of after-school programs for all children.



9. Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.


Response: This is false. Joe and Jose paid for these local services through their property, sales, and income taxes. Also, the fact pattern tells us that both Jose and Joe are renters (See No. 5), thus their landlord factored in property taxes into their rent.


10. Jose Illegal can send most of his money back home to build a new home for retirement, and have money to buy a new truck (and still have Medi-Cal benefits while living in a foreign country; until someone turns him in to authorities....if they ever find out!!) Joe will be lucky if he has any money for retirement, a new vehicle, medical/dental benefits, or a place to live.


Response: According to the Pew Hispanic Center, 21% of unauthorized aliens in the United States are poor. Thus, it does not appear that while Jose is working construction and supporting a wife and two kids that he is building a “retirement home.” Also, as noted above Jose Illegal would not be eligible for full Medi-Cal benefits.

11. I have done the math, all you have to do is to look at it yourself. Don't hire illegal aliens.....Don't vote for any politician that supports illegal aliens.....And most important of all, write your politicians and let them know how you feel.


Response: It is unlawful to hire someone who is not authorized to work in the United States and it is important to let your elected representatives know how you feel. But please, form your opinions on truth and facts and not on deliberate distortions and false emails.


12. PS: You forgot, Jose illegal's wife claims "single, no head of Household" and collects additional benefits that Joe legal's wife cannot claim. No wonder our country is in trouble!! Think about it!


Response: The fact pattern begins to fall apart with its own distortions. First it claims that Jose does not pay taxes (No. 2), then it claims that “Jose illegal’s [sic] wife” files taxes as “single, no head of Household.” There is no such category. According to the IRS, there are five filing statuses: 1) single, 2) married filing jointly, 3) married filing separately, 4) Head of household; and 5) Qualifying widow(er) with Dependant Child. The Head of Household status usually grants a lower tax rate and higher standard deduction than the single or married filing separately status. Jose’s wife could file as Head of Household- or Joe’s wife for that matter- if they were: 1) unmarried or considered unmarried on the last day of the year; 2) paid more than half the cost of keeping up a home for the year; and a 3) “qualifying person” lived with them. If she met the eligibility, then she is lawfully claiming the status. If not, then she would be filing a fraudulent tax return and committing a crime.


Please keep separating the "wheat from the chaff" and consider your sources of information as you form your opinions about immigration issues.

http://isaac-project.blogspot.com/20...e-legal-v.html
Great post.

This thread is a sickening display of racism. No doubt the original poster would object loudly if one were to attempt to make the same inaccurate allegations about the last major minority of the 18th and 19th centuries.
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  #44  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:42 PM
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seguidordejesus seguidordejesus is offline
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

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Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
I don't advocate hatefulness (at all), but the lack of English-speaking skills is becoming a real problem. I live in an area that has an extremely high Hispanic population, and sometimes the communication difficulties really complicate things. I don't have a problem with people struggling with English, but it seems like a lot of them are not even trying to learn. Since this country's official language is English, I think you should learn it if you plan to live here.

I wouldn't move to China and not expect to learn their language. The point of having a common language is so that we can all communicate with each other.
The bolded is false.
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  #45  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:44 PM
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

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Originally Posted by seguidordejesus View Post
The bolded is false.
So what's our language?
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  #46  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:48 PM
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus View Post
Great post.

This thread is a sickening display of racism. No doubt the original poster would object loudly if one were to attempt to make the same inaccurate allegations about the last major minority of the 18th and 19th centuries.
Every single issue in the world can't be blamed on racism. This has nothing to do with racism. It's about our current laws, laws which aren't being followed, and how we should deal with the situation. If I were from ENGLAND and came over here illegally, it would still be.... illegal.

No, there aren't any black and white answers, and yes, it's complicated. But it's still a real issue that has nothing to do with RACE.
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  #47  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:49 PM
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
Every single issue in the world can't be blamed on racism. This has nothing to do with racism. It's about our current laws, laws which aren't being followed, and how we should deal with the situation. If I were from ENGLAND and came over here illegally, it would still be.... illegal.

No, there aren't any black and white answers, and yes, it's complicated. But it's still a real issue that has nothing to do with RACE.
The example used was not good ole Danny Boy, it was Jose Illegal.

The original post is indeed sickeningly racist.
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  #48  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:49 PM
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

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Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
So what's our language?
keyword "official"
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  #49  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:50 PM
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

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Originally Posted by DAII View Post
If that is indeed the case ... which I think should be looked at a case by case basis ... again keeping in mind they do contribute ...

if that would be true for more than half of the American public that does not pay income taxes .... according to recent studies published this week ...
Yeah, but at least they are legal. But for someone to unlawfully enter then receive benefits is crazy. I think the welfare/disability stuff needs overhauling even for our own citizens.
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  #50  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:51 PM
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Re: Illegal Alien Thread

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Originally Posted by seguidordejesus View Post
The example used was not good ole Danny Boy, it was Jose Illegal.

The original post is indeed sickeningly racist.
The example used was used because most of our illegal immigrants are coming from south of the border.

If we were dealing with an influx of immigrants from England, Danny-Boy would probably have been used.
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