Using secular songs to open service for icebreaker

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

I've seen it 2 times now in my journeys visiting churches here in S. Florida to get ideas for our new church. Talking to the pastors about it they both present it as a icebreaker.

One of them was clever... the played Don't Fear the Reaper by Blue Oyster Cult when doing a series on the afterlife and heaven. I can give them a pass for creativity and a sense of humor.

But Granger Community Church which is a trendsetter for the post moderns recently opened with a Poison song.

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2010/08...aise-song.html

Click on link below to view it in their worship service and give your thoughts. Its a growing trend out there.

I am opposed to this.

Unless it was an inspirational or general feel good song (I'm thinking, "Lean On Me or something like that) it does not have a place in a worship service.

A worship service should be more about HIM than it should about the people worshiping HIM.

Many secular songs may not be anti-God, but very few do little, if anything, to point people in the direction of love of our GOD and our brothers and sisters.



Where is Michael W. Smith when you need him? I can hear him singing now, "When the music fades and all is stripped away...."

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Wrong. The intent of the music is to do ONLY one thing.....sell it to Christians. They know how to assemble the words that will appeal to a certain economic demographic.


Second bold.....and God can use Paul McCartney and his music to reach people as well.

Don't you think your going a bit overboard in saying that the one and ONLY intent by essentially ALL Christian musicians is to sell their music? I doubt that is the sole motivation for Indiana Bible College, Pentecostals of Alexandria, and several others, some who have even given their music away at services. Furthermore, I doubt that all of the mainstream christian artists desire to only sell music, and all the while mock the Christian message.

I don't get all caught up in personalities, so I can't comment at length, but I know Steven Curtis Chapman has given his life to making music that glories God and adopting underpriveledged children. I know Mark Shultz is highly involved in church ministry. Same thing with the lead songwrited of Casting Crowns.

Really how can you compare the lyrics of a group such as Casting Crowns with those of the Beatles, and declare the Beatles to be used of God, and Casting Crowns to be in it ONLY to sell their music (with no other motivation). I think you point fails miserably

As for point 2. Ciaphas was the high priest, an ordained office by God, despite the fact He was corrupt, and unredeemed, he still held a position that was ordained by God, and God used Him to prophecy. God used Balaam to prophecy.

There are preachers who live double lives, yet they can preach under the anointing of God. God can use imperfect vessels. I'm sure Christian artists are not completely different from preachers.

God can use who He wants. HE used Pharoh, but can you give a Biblical example of God using a complete heathen (not a hypocrite religious person) to speak a spiritual direction to his people?

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I am unable to watch the video right now, so I googled the lyrics. I don't see alot of hop in them, but I guess the argument can be made its a positive message. ( I guess)

I also never heard of the band so I read the article about them on Wiki.

I fail to see the benefit in getting spiritual motivation from heathens. When we ought to be the light to them, they are seeming leading us?

Figures. Come to our church next Sunday and I'll point out nearly an entire audience that swore off church years ago, who are completely uninterested in "How Great Thou Art", but who will respond to "Seether", "Coldplay", "30 Seconds to Mars" "Switchfoot", or "Linkin Park." These people are in the field that God calls us to, but most of use are too busy insisting that Coldplay is evil, to listen to the hearts of the hurting, who need Jesus.

You wanna see a purpose in it? Accompany me next week and I'll introduce you to dozens of people, that The Church gave up on years ago, who are pursuing a relationship with Christ. It's AMAZING!!!

You should lead someone to Christ sometime. You might actually enjoy it!

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Sherri

We don't tell them they have to, but some of them do. Some of it is just too much of a reminder of where God brought them from.

So is there Corvette, their house, and their t-bone steak dinners. I'm just saying that I don't see the purpose in avoiding certain genres of music that could be used to reach people because it might "bother" someone. I don't think it would bother them at all.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Don't you think your going a bit overboard in saying that the one and ONLY intent by essentially ALL Christian musicians is to sell their music? I doubt that is the sole motivation for Indiana Bible College, Pentecostals of Alexandria, and several others, some who have even given their music away at services. Furthermore, I doubt that all of the mainstream christian artists desire to only sell music, and all the while mock the Christian message.

I don't get all caught up in personalities, so I can't comment at length, but I know Steven Curtis Chapman has given his life to making music that glories God and adopting underpriveledged children. I know Mark Shultz is highly involved in church ministry. Same thing with the lead songwrited of Casting Crowns.

Really how can you compare the lyrics of a group such as Casting Crowns with those of the Beatles, and declare the Beatles to be used of God, and Casting Crowns to be in it ONLY to sell their music (with no other motivation). I think you point fails miserably

As for point 2. Ciaphas was the high priest, an ordained office by God, despite the fact He was corrupt, and unredeemed, he still held a position that was ordained by God, and God used Him to prophecy. God used Balaam to prophecy.

There are preachers who live double lives, yet they can preach under the anointing of God. God can use imperfect vessels. I'm sure Christian artists are not completely different from preachers.

God can use who He wants. HE used Pharoh, but can you give a Biblical example of God using a complete heathen (not a hypocrite religious person) to speak a spiritual direction to his people?

I didn't say "All". It's just like "ALL" secular artists are NOT evil. Coldplay is a group of guys that fight for justice and love helping the underprivileged. Then there are some awful people in the rock industry....just like the Christian music industry.

My ENTIRE point of this is, you can't judge the music by its author. Therefore, use music that will help, build up, and reach people.

Paul used Greek mythology in Acts 17 to bridge the gap between the gospel and people that were outside the faith. The same goes with Seether, Coldplay, The Beatles, etc.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I am opposed to this.

Unless it was an inspirational or general feel good song (I'm thinking, "Lean On Me or something like that) it does not have a place in a worship service.

A worship service should be more about HIM than it should about the people worshiping HIM.

Many secular songs may not be anti-God, but very few do little, if anything, to point people in the direction of love of our GOD and our brothers and sisters.



Where is Michael W. Smith when you need him? I can hear him singing now, "When the music fades and all is stripped away...."

So "Lean On Me" is ok? This is what makes my head spin:

"I'm against this!!!!".......(well, except that one song. I like that one)

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Figures. Come to our church next Sunday and I'll point out nearly an entire audience that swore off church years ago, who are completely uninterested in "How Great Thou Art", but who will respond to "Seether", "Coldplay", "30 Seconds to Mars" "Switchfoot", or "Linkin Park." These people are in the field that God calls us to, but most of use are too busy insisting that Coldplay is evil, to listen to the hearts of the hurting, who need Jesus.

You wanna see a purpose in it? Accompany me next week and I'll introduce you to dozens of people, that The Church gave up on years ago, who are pursuing a relationship with Christ. It's AMAZING!!!

You should lead someone to Christ sometime. You might actually enjoy it!

MR. Smith, this would be less offesnive if you din't know me. You well know that I don't put up walls to keep people away from God. Stick to the issues, not ad hominem tactics.

There IS ALOT of problems with the traditional church. I agree. And the traitional churhes have made themselves IRRELEVANT-I agree.

But the gospel isn't broken, we don't need unredeemed sinners to lead us to God, we need to humble ourselves and get the mind of Christ.

My personal desire is to do anything I can to lead people to Christ. But I'm not going to tell them something that isn't true. When it all comes down to it, the gospel message is still a message of deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me. Everyone is trying to copy Lakewood and go for the multitudes, but Jesus wasn't impressed with multitudes, He was looking for disciples.

My church is EXTREMELY motivated to reach out to sinner and unchurched. That is a very hollow accusation directed at me. You know very well that I LEFT a church because they did the very thing your accusing me of.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

MR. Smith, this would be less offesnive if you din't know me. You well know that I don't put up walls to keep people away from God. Stick to the issues, not ad hominem tactics.

There IS ALOT of problems with the traditional church. I agree. And the traitional churhes have made themselves IRRELEVANT-I agree.

But the gospel isn't broken, we don't need unredeemed sinners to lead us to God, we need to humble ourselves and get the mind of Christ.

My personal desire is to do anything I can to lead people to Christ. But I'm not going to tell them something that isn't true. When it all comes down to it, the gospel message is still a message of deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me. Everyone is trying to copy Lakewood and go for the multitudes, but Jesus wasn't impressed with multitudes, He was looking for disciples.

My church is EXTREMELY motivated to reach out to sinner and unchurched. That is a very hollow accusation directed at me. You know very well that I LEFT a church because they did the very thing your accusing me of.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

MR. Smith, this would be less offesnive if you din't know me. You well know that I don't put up walls to keep people away from God. Stick to the issues, not ad hominem tactics.

There IS ALOT of problems with the traditional church. I agree. And the traitional churhes have made themselves IRRELEVANT-I agree.

But the gospel isn't broken, we don't need unredeemed sinners to lead us to God, we need to humble ourselves and get the mind of Christ.

My personal desire is to do anything I can to lead people to Christ. But I'm not going to tell them something that isn't true. When it all comes down to it, the gospel message is still a message of deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me. Everyone is trying to copy Lakewood and go for the multitudes, but Jesus wasn't impressed with multitudes, He was looking for disciples.

My church is EXTREMELY motivated to reach out to sinner and unchurched. That is a very hollow accusation directed at me. You know very well that I LEFT a church because they did the very thing your accusing me of.

Bold #1: The gospel has never been nor will be, broken. But its stewards are. You wanna hear the documented statistics? It's NOT a pretty picture. Bottom line? WE'RE LOSING!!!

Bold #2: Motivation is great. Every church is motivated. But motivated enough to actually abandon our WAY outdated tactics that haven't worked since the 1950's? Nope. Not very many. NewSpring is, though. They've baptized thousands and thousands in the last ten years.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Bold #1: The gospel has never been nor will be, broken. But its stewards are. You wanna hear the documented statistics? It's NOT a pretty picture. Bottom line? WE'RE LOSING!!!

Bold #2: Motivation is great. Every church is motivated. But motivated enough to actually abandon our WAY outdated tactics that haven't worked since the 1950's? Nope. Not very many. NewSpring is, though. They've baptized thousands and thousands in the last ten years.

How many are still there. If they're not making disciples, I'm not impressed. Like someone said recently ( I think it was John MacArthur). One of the churches in california claimed to have something like 20,000 new converts over the last 2 or 3 years, yet there church attendence only grew by 120.