He who restraineth???

[mfblume]

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Originally Posted by mfblume

I posted this some time back...


In 2 Thessalonians 2, we read about a man of sin and son of perdition. A falling away occurs and then this person is revealed. He opposes and exalts himself above all that is of God, and exalts himself in the temple. He proposes that he is God, himself.

For the sake of information and strong consideration let me show what history has stated, as well as witnesses from believers through the centuries as to who the son of perdition may refer to, although we may not agree with everything the following believers wrote or believed in other issues of truth.

Victorinus spoke of the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians and proposed it involved Rome and the wicked one being Nero.

“And after many plagues completed in the world, in the end he says that a beast ascended from the abyss…that is, of the Romans. Moreover that he was in the kingdom of the Romans, and that he was among the Caesars. The Apostle Paul also bears witness, for he says to the Thessalonians: Let him who now restraineth restrain, until he be taken out of the way; and then shall appear the Wicked One, even he whose coming is after the working of Satan, with signs an lying wonders.’ And that they might know that he should come who then was the prince, he adds: ‘He already endeavours after the secret of mischief’ – that is, the mischief which he is about to do he strives to do secretly; but he is not raised up by his own power, nor by that of his father, but by command of God.”

Victorinus, Commentary on the Apocalypse, ad 11:7; Ante-Nicene Fathers, p. 354

Augustine (A.D. 354-430) is even more explicit:

“Some think that these words refer to the Roman empire, and that the apostle Paul did not wish to write more explicitly, lest he should incur a charge of calumny against the Roman empire, in wishing ill to it when men hoped that it was to be everlasting. So in the words: ‘For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work’ he referred to Nero, whose deeds already seemed to be as those of Antichrist.”

Augustine, City of God, XX, xix; cf., Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V, xxv-xxviii; Lactanius, Divine Inst. VII, xxv

J. Stuart Russell wrote these words in the Parousia of Christ,

“At that time Nero was not yet ‘manifested;’ his true character was not discovered; he had not yet succeeded to the Empire. Claudius, his step-father, lived, and stood in the way of the son of Agrippina. But that hindrance was soon removed. In less than a year, probably, after this epistle was received by the Thessalonians, Claudius was ‘taken out of the way,’ a victim to the deadly practice of the infamous Agrippina; her son also, according to Suetonius, being accessory to the deed.”

J. Stuart Russell, The Parousia (1887, London, T. Fisher Unwin; republished 1983, 1999 by Baker Books, Grand Rapids, MI), pp. 182, 183

It is interesting that some Greek scholars have noted that "he who letteth" is the Greek phrase, "ha katechon." And in Latin, this is translated to "qui claudit." Some believe this is a somewhat subtle way of pointing the finger at Claudius Caesar who ruled before Nero, and that when Claudius was removed from office as Caesar, Nero would be revealed. A similar belief is held about the number of the Beast, 666, being the gematriacal equivalent to Neron Keser, or Nero Caesar. It is a historical fact that Claudius held back persecution of the church. He commanded a ruling entitled "religio licita" which disallowed Christian persecution and even banished some Jews from Rome because of their riots against "Chrestus", referring to Christ and Christians. (Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, Claudius, XXV, 4. Cf. Acts 18:2). This means Jews could not persecute the church so long as Claudius remained in power. His wife, Agrippina, poisoned him and her son, Nero, came to power, showing that the one who restrained was removed so the wicked one could be revealed. Nero's wife Poppaea was a Jewish proselyte and brought the Jews back into favour in Rome. The mystery of iniquity, which could be seen as antichristian power of persecution, was then allowed back as Nero became emperor.

Lactantius (A.D. 260-330) wrote:

And while Nero reigned, the Apostle Peter came to Rome, and, through the power of God committed unto him, wrought certain miracles, and, by turning many to the rue religion, built up a faithful and stedfast temple unto the Lord. When Nero heard of those things, and observed that not only in Rome, but in every other place, a great multitude revolted daily from the worship of idols, and , condemning their old ways, went over to the new religion, he, an execrable and pernicious tyrant, sprung forward to raze the heavenly temple and destroy the true faith. He it was who first persecuted the servants of God; he crucified Peter, and slew Paul; nor did he escape with impunity; for God looked on the affliction of His people; and therefore the tyrant, bereaved of authority, and precipitated from the height of empire, suddenly disappeared, and even the a burial-place of that noxious wild beast was nowhere to be seen.

Lactantius, Of the Manner in which the Persecutors Died, Chpt. II; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. VII, p. 302; cf. Divine Institutes, VII, xvii

Chrysostom (A.D. 347 to 407) wrote:

"For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work." He speaks here of Nero... But he did not also wish to point him out plainly: and this not from cowardice, but instructing us not to bring upon ourselves unnecessary enmities, when there is nothing to call for it.

St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on II Thess., Nicene-Post Nicene Fathers, Vol. XXIII

What about the charge of lying wonders? History shows that Nero was hailed in Rome as "Nero the Hercules. Nero the Apollo. Thou August, August! Sacred voice! Eternal one." (Commentary on Apocalypse , Chapter 8, If one calls himself a God, then it stands to reason he claims to perform wonders and supernatural miracles.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I posted this some time back...


In 2 Thessalonians 2, we read about a man of sin and son of perdition. A falling away occurs and then this person is revealed. He opposes and exalts himself above all that is of God, and exalts himself in the temple. He proposes that he is God, himself.

For the sake of information and strong consideration let me show what history has stated, as well as witnesses from believers through the centuries as to who the son of perdition may refer to, although we may not agree with everything the following believers wrote or believed in other issues of truth.

Victorinus spoke of the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians and proposed it involved Rome and the wicked one being Nero.

“And after many plagues completed in the world, in the end he says that a beast ascended from the abyss…that is, of the Romans. Moreover that he was in the kingdom of the Romans, and that he was among the Caesars. The Apostle Paul also bears witness, for he says to the Thessalonians: Let him who now restraineth restrain, until he be taken out of the way; and then shall appear the Wicked One, even he whose coming is after the working of Satan, with signs an lying wonders.’ And that they might know that he should come who then was the prince, he adds: ‘He already endeavours after the secret of mischief’ – that is, the mischief which he is about to do he strives to do secretly; but he is not raised up by his own power, nor by that of his father, but by command of God.”

Victorinus, Commentary on the Apocalypse, ad 11:7; Ante-Nicene Fathers, p. 354

Augustine (A.D. 354-430) is even more explicit:

“Some think that these words refer to the Roman empire, and that the apostle Paul did not wish to write more explicitly, lest he should incur a charge of calumny against the Roman empire, in wishing ill to it when men hoped that it was to be everlasting. So in the words: ‘For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work’ he referred to Nero, whose deeds already seemed to be as those of Antichrist.”

Augustine, City of God, XX, xix; cf., Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V, xxv-xxviii; Lactanius, Divine Inst. VII, xxv

J. Stuart Russell wrote these words in the Parousia of Christ,

“At that time Nero was not yet ‘manifested;’ his true character was not discovered; he had not yet succeeded to the Empire. Claudius, his step-father, lived, and stood in the way of the son of Agrippina. But that hindrance was soon removed. In less than a year, probably, after this epistle was received by the Thessalonians, Claudius was ‘taken out of the way,’ a victim to the deadly practice of the infamous Agrippina; her son also, according to Suetonius, being accessory to the deed.”

J. Stuart Russell, The Parousia (1887, London, T. Fisher Unwin; republished 1983, 1999 by Baker Books, Grand Rapids, MI), pp. 182, 183

It is interesting that some Greek scholars have noted that "he who letteth" is the Greek phrase, "ha katechon." And in Latin, this is translated to "qui claudit." Some believe this is a somewhat subtle way of pointing the finger at Claudius Caesar who ruled before Nero, and that when Claudius was removed from office as Caesar, Nero would be revealed. A similar belief is held about the number of the Beast, 666, being the gematriacal equivalent to Neron Keser, or Nero Caesar. It is a historical fact that Claudius held back persecution of the church. He commanded a ruling entitled "religio licita" which disallowed Christian persecution and even banished some Jews from Rome because of their riots against "Chrestus", referring to Christ and Christians. (Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, Claudius, XXV, 4. Cf. Acts 18:2). This means Jews could not persecute the church so long as Claudius remained in power. His wife, Agrippina, poisoned him and her son, Nero, came to power, showing that the one who restrained was removed so the wicked one could be revealed. Nero's wife Poppaea was a Jewish proselyte and brought the Jews back into favour in Rome. The mystery of iniquity, which could be seen as antichristian power of persecution, was then allowed back as Nero became emperor.

Lactantius (A.D. 260-330) wrote:

And while Nero reigned, the Apostle Peter came to Rome, and, through the power of God committed unto him, wrought certain miracles, and, by turning many to the rue religion, built up a faithful and stedfast temple unto the Lord. When Nero heard of those things, and observed that not only in Rome, but in every other place, a great multitude revolted daily from the worship of idols, and , condemning their old ways, went over to the new religion, he, an execrable and pernicious tyrant, sprung forward to raze the heavenly temple and destroy the true faith. He it was who first persecuted the servants of God; he crucified Peter, and slew Paul; nor did he escape with impunity; for God looked on the affliction of His people; and therefore the tyrant, bereaved of authority, and precipitated from the height of empire, suddenly disappeared, and even the a burial-place of that noxious wild beast was nowhere to be seen.

Lactantius, Of the Manner in which the Persecutors Died, Chpt. II; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. VII, p. 302; cf. Divine Institutes, VII, xvii

Chrysostom (A.D. 347 to 407) wrote:

"For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work." He speaks here of Nero... But he did not also wish to point him out plainly: and this not from cowardice, but instructing us not to bring upon ourselves unnecessary enmities, when there is nothing to call for it.

St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on II Thess., Nicene-Post Nicene Fathers, Vol. XXIII

What about the charge of lying wonders? History shows that Nero was hailed in Rome as "Nero the Hercules. Nero the Apollo. Thou August, August! Sacred voice! Eternal one." (Commentary on Apocalypse , Chapter 8, If one calls himself a God, then it stands to reason he claims to perform wonders and supernatural miracles.

BUMP

[Sean]

Hitler was proclaimed a God also.

[Sean]

Return to Net-Abbey
Hitler as Messiah and god

hitler
Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s chief propagandist, said in a broadcast on 19 April 1936, that "Germany has been transformed into a great house of the Lord where the Fuhrer as our mediator stands before the throne of God."

"Spiritual" sentiments of this kind were echoed time and again during Hitler’s glory years. Another powerful voice in the Nazi party, Dr. Robert Ley, proclaimed that "We believe on this earth in Adolf Hitler alone! We believe in National Socialism as the creed which is the sole source of grace!"

Where did such ridiculous rant come from? What strange brain concocted these weird myths about the paranoid dictator with the toothbrush mustache?

Of course it was Hitler himself who ordered that he be presented as a deified messiah.

Before coming to power in January of 1933, Hitler wrote about his reaction to Berlin on his first visit there: "The luxury, the perversion, the iniquity, the wanton display, and the Jewish materialism [of Berlin’s commercial district] disgusted me so thoroughly that I was almost beside myself," Hitler recalled. "I nearly imagined myself to be Jesus Christ when he came to his Father’s temple and found it full of money-changers. I can well imagine how he felt when he seized a whip and scourged them out."

When Hitler compared himself to Jesus, he was proclaiming his own divinity. Knowing as we do that Hitler’s ambitions were eventually blown to smithereens, it’s hard for us to realize how many Germans considered him a supernatural being.

But it is true. Millions of German households actually erected shrines that featured a photograph of what they thought of as their dictator’s divine countenance. They said prayers in his behalf — even directed prayers to him — throughout the day.

In the eyes of his people, Hitler had rescued them from the humiliations of their defeat in World War I. Better still, he was going to lead all Germans into a future of unrivaled glory.

hitler as a god

Hitler as Militant Aryan Messiah

Freed at last from the dreadful fears that military and economic catastrophe had aroused in them, Germans envisioned Hitler as a truly magical figure of majestic wisdom and power. They saw him as an irresistible force, and they surrendered their whole hearts to him. He hypnotized Germans into worshipping him, successfully presenting himself as a savior and even as God himself.

Except for the tabloids, the international media tended to downplay his most grandiose claims. But the Vatican understood how important it was to talk back to Hitler on the divinity issue. In 1937, Pope Pius XI issued an official letter entitled "With Burning Heart" that scorned Hitler for his claims to godhood.

[Sean]

Comparing Hitler to the Biblical Jesus


Hitler with Whip
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.

--Adolf Hitler, in his speech on 12 April 1922


Hitler not only believed he did the Lords work, but he thought of himself as a sort of saviour of Germany, and emulated Jesus of the New Testament. His friend Dietrich Eckart told of overhearing Hitler showing off to a lady by denouncing Berlin in extravagant terms: ". . . the luxury, the perversion, the iniquity, the wanton display and the Jewish materialism disgusted me so thoroughly that I was almost beside myself. I nearly imagined myself to be Jesus Christ when he came to his Father's Temple and found the money changers." Eckart described Hitler as "brandishing his whip and exclaimed that it was his mission to descend upon the capital like a Christ and scourge the corrupt." [Toland p. 143]

(See John 2:14-15 where Jesus drove out the moneychangers with a "scourge of small cords" [a whip]).

The following examples show further how Hitler compared with Jesus of the Bible.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...EKrA6zQOge4lPc







And this source was written from an atheists' point of view.

[Sean]

Hitler was far more, a false Christ than Nero was.

Yet, in all of this, the restrainer continues to restrain and the spirit of antichrist still seeks a man to rise over the earth.

The restrainer has held this spirit back for 2000 years, but will be removed at the right time for the rise of antichrist.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Hitler was the beast?

What was the falling away which occurred in 1935?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I posted this some time back...


In 2 Thessalonians 2, we read about a man of sin and son of perdition. A falling away occurs and then this person is revealed. He opposes and exalts himself above all that is of God, and exalts himself in the temple. He proposes that he is God, himself.

For the sake of information and strong consideration let me show what history has stated, as well as witnesses from believers through the centuries as to who the son of perdition may refer to, although we may not agree with everything the following believers wrote or believed in other issues of truth.

Victorinus spoke of the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians and proposed it involved Rome and the wicked one being Nero.

“And after many plagues completed in the world, in the end he says that a beast ascended from the abyss…that is, of the Romans. Moreover that he was in the kingdom of the Romans, and that he was among the Caesars. The Apostle Paul also bears witness, for he says to the Thessalonians: Let him who now restraineth restrain, until he be taken out of the way; and then shall appear the Wicked One, even he whose coming is after the working of Satan, with signs an lying wonders.’ And that they might know that he should come who then was the prince, he adds: ‘He already endeavours after the secret of mischief’ – that is, the mischief which he is about to do he strives to do secretly; but he is not raised up by his own power, nor by that of his father, but by command of God.”

Victorinus, Commentary on the Apocalypse, ad 11:7; Ante-Nicene Fathers, p. 354

Augustine (A.D. 354-430) is even more explicit:

“Some think that these words refer to the Roman empire, and that the apostle Paul did not wish to write more explicitly, lest he should incur a charge of calumny against the Roman empire, in wishing ill to it when men hoped that it was to be everlasting. So in the words: ‘For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work’ he referred to Nero, whose deeds already seemed to be as those of Antichrist.”

Augustine, City of God, XX, xix; cf., Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V, xxv-xxviii; Lactanius, Divine Inst. VII, xxv

J. Stuart Russell wrote these words in the Parousia of Christ,

“At that time Nero was not yet ‘manifested;’ his true character was not discovered; he had not yet succeeded to the Empire. Claudius, his step-father, lived, and stood in the way of the son of Agrippina. But that hindrance was soon removed. In less than a year, probably, after this epistle was received by the Thessalonians, Claudius was ‘taken out of the way,’ a victim to the deadly practice of the infamous Agrippina; her son also, according to Suetonius, being accessory to the deed.”

J. Stuart Russell, The Parousia (1887, London, T. Fisher Unwin; republished 1983, 1999 by Baker Books, Grand Rapids, MI), pp. 182, 183

It is interesting that some Greek scholars have noted that "he who letteth" is the Greek phrase, "ha katechon." And in Latin, this is translated to "qui claudit." Some believe this is a somewhat subtle way of pointing the finger at Claudius Caesar who ruled before Nero, and that when Claudius was removed from office as Caesar, Nero would be revealed. A similar belief is held about the number of the Beast, 666, being the gematriacal equivalent to Neron Keser, or Nero Caesar. It is a historical fact that Claudius held back persecution of the church. He commanded a ruling entitled "religio licita" which disallowed Christian persecution and even banished some Jews from Rome because of their riots against "Chrestus", referring to Christ and Christians. (Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, Claudius, XXV, 4. Cf. Acts 18:2). This means Jews could not persecute the church so long as Claudius remained in power. His wife, Agrippina, poisoned him and her son, Nero, came to power, showing that the one who restrained was removed so the wicked one could be revealed. Nero's wife Poppaea was a Jewish proselyte and brought the Jews back into favour in Rome. The mystery of iniquity, which could be seen as antichristian power of persecution, was then allowed back as Nero became emperor.

Lactantius (A.D. 260-330) wrote:

And while Nero reigned, the Apostle Peter came to Rome, and, through the power of God committed unto him, wrought certain miracles, and, by turning many to the rue religion, built up a faithful and stedfast temple unto the Lord. When Nero heard of those things, and observed that not only in Rome, but in every other place, a great multitude revolted daily from the worship of idols, and , condemning their old ways, went over to the new religion, he, an execrable and pernicious tyrant, sprung forward to raze the heavenly temple and destroy the true faith. He it was who first persecuted the servants of God; he crucified Peter, and slew Paul; nor did he escape with impunity; for God looked on the affliction of His people; and therefore the tyrant, bereaved of authority, and precipitated from the height of empire, suddenly disappeared, and even the a burial-place of that noxious wild beast was nowhere to be seen.

Lactantius, Of the Manner in which the Persecutors Died, Chpt. II; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. VII, p. 302; cf. Divine Institutes, VII, xvii

Chrysostom (A.D. 347 to 407) wrote:

"For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work." He speaks here of Nero... But he did not also wish to point him out plainly: and this not from cowardice, but instructing us not to bring upon ourselves unnecessary enmities, when there is nothing to call for it.

St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on II Thess., Nicene-Post Nicene Fathers, Vol. XXIII

What about the charge of lying wonders? History shows that Nero was hailed in Rome as "Nero the Hercules. Nero the Apollo. Thou August, August! Sacred voice! Eternal one." (Commentary on Apocalypse , Chapter 8, If one calls himself a God, then it stands to reason he claims to perform wonders and supernatural miracles.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Hitler was the beast?

What was the falling away which occurred in 1935?

My point....many antichrist's but not THE antichrist.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

II Thessalonians 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (Greek-restraineth) will let until he be taken out of the way"

Who is restraining?

What is he restraining?

Where will he be taken to when he is taken out of the way?

He who is being restrained from returning is Christ. The restrainer is the fact that the Anti-Christ has not been revealed. When the Anti-Christ is taken out of the way, Christ can return.