Nothing about BOTT on here???

[Jay]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

What did he tell her to do? It couldn't be that private if he told her in front of an entire congregation. LOL

He basically told her to strenghten her walk with God. He said a few things about her that were known to the congregation that he could not have known, although said in such a way as to not cause suffering. And told her that in order to make it she needed to give the pain etc. to God.

I do not remember exact specifics, but I do remember the young lady. Her troubled childhood and young adulthood were not to be envied as she had suffered a tremendous amount of pain. Sadly, she never would truly yeild herself to God. I could name the sins that she eventuall committed and the hurt that she caused herself and others, but that would not be in good taste on a forum where she might know more than one of us.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

What did he tell her to do? It couldn't be that private if he told her in front of an entire congregation. LOL

Originally Posted by Jay

He basically told her to strenghten her walk with God. He said a few things about her that were known to the congregation that he could not have known, although said in such a way as to not cause suffering. And told her that in order to make it she needed to give the pain etc. to God.

I do not remember exact specifics, but I do remember the young lady. Her troubled childhood and young adulthood were not to be envied as she had suffered a tremendous amount of pain. Sadly, she never would truly yeild herself to God. I could name the sins that she eventuall committed and the hurt that she caused herself and others, but that would not be in good taste on a forum where she might know more than one of us.

I can speak of this as the one has past.

It was a second cousin of mine, born and raised in the church. She backslid, came back, backslid, came back, etc. etc.

During one of her backslid periods she came to a revival. The visiting preacher walked back to her during alter call and told her, if she didn't make up her mind to come back to God where she knew she belonged her child would be born with problems and she would suffer greatly.

He did this quietly, we know what was said because she repeated it mockingly several times over the next few weeks. 9 months later she gave birth to a metally retarded daughter. 2 years later she died painfully after a long hospital stay for complications due to alcoholism. She would have seizures so strong her eyes would literally pop out. She died during one of those seizures.

I guess eventually God will give you over to your sin.

[Jay]

Scotty, a number of people would not believe what you have said, however I know that my own father has done this with people. I know of two examples.

There was a lady who my father won through his job. God did many marvelous things, and convicted her of wearing pants, makeup, jewelery, cutting her hair, etc. without ever hearing it preached over the pulpit. She would ask questions of him every week about the standards. She saw the Oneness of God and baptism in Jesus' name almost immediately. However, she married a man who was not Pentecostal, but Charismatic who drew her away from everything that God had shown her. When they finally came to tell my father, their pastor, that they would not be coming back, he sat with them in his office and laid out a list of things that would happen if they left. One of the last things that he said was this, "You can walk out those doors, but when you do God will not show you anymore truth. You can go to other churches, and you will hear a little truth here and a little there, but it will not do you any good." Sometime later, the two of them divorced, and she started returning to her sinful life (and she had a reputation in the plant for sin). One day the man that she had married walked up to Dad while they were working and said, "Everything you told us would happen after you left has come to pass exactly as you said. I am sorry." I do not know whether or not he ever got right with God after this conversation. I pray he did, although it was not at our church while we were there. A number of weeks later Dad was walking by her work station to get a part that he needed and stopped. He looked at her and said, "We love you, we miss you, and we want you to come back home." That was on the last shift he worked before the weekend. Sunday morning she was in church. On Sunday night, she told Dad that she had been going to kill herself that very afternoon because she knew the sins that she had committed before she was in the church, and saw herself returning, and knew that she was becoming worse than before. She said that she never wanted to return to that lifestyle, and so she was going to end it all. She prayed through and got right with God. I do not know the end of her story as it was not yet finished when we left. I do know that for a number of years she stayed in that church. However, our family lost track of her eventually, and now only God knows what the end of the story is.

That was one that ended on a happy note, but I have another that did not end nearly so well.

There was a man in a church that we were attending, God had delivered him from drugs and alcohol, but this man had cycled through the church for years. He wold pray through, receive deliverance, and then after a number of months backslide. He would do this many times. One Saturday night during the church prayer meeting, my father sat with him and told him, "God has said that His Spirit will not always strive with man. If you walk out of those doors again (understood to mean backsliding), you may return, but God will not ever deal with you again." The man stayed for a few more months I believe, but he left the church. When he returned, it was visible that God would not touch him. I watched people cry under conviction, and he would stand with his head down unmoved and ashamed. Eventually he and a friend were arrested for having sex with minors, and placed in a maximum detention facility (the very one we had in town). It is possible that with the number of charges he was convicted of, he could still be behind bars yet.

[deacon blues]

I believe in the gifts of the Spirit and their operation in the church today. I think there is also a caricatured version of the gifts that are at best people trying to make something miraculous happen and at worst being used by the angel of light. Severalmthings I feel strongly about:

1. The gifts are for edification. God may reveal things about someone that has more to do with you praying for them rather than humiliating them. Any revelations of sin or things that could embarrass or drive a person away shouldmbe revealed privately.

2. Prophecies or words of knowledge better be accurate. I had a so-called prophet tell me I had knee problems and disc problems in my back, none of which were true on any level. One defender of the man said, "Well sometimes God will reveal what might happen so the prophet can pray." Well in that case, anyone can be a prophet I suppose.

3. I don't believe that Gifts of the Spirit can only operate in a church service or large gathering/event. It seems that there is this mentality that it takes crusades, revivals or special healing services to have the supernatural/divine take place. In fact I believe more happens out of the spotlight than does in the spotlight. Too often men and ministries get glorified rather than God. Jesus often asked people to not tell what happened to them. he always wanted the glory to go to God. One "prophet" sent word to me through some relatives that if I'd have him come and do a crusade with him that our church would double, guaranteeing that I would never invite him to come. Such hubris does not resonate with me, nor does it reflect the meekness that should come from someone used by God.

4. The gifts should operate according to Biblical order. Paul makes it clear that gifts out of order cause more damage than help. If the way we conduct ourselves in our gatherings causes unbelievers to scratch their heads and to believe we are crazy, Paul says there is a problem. Many of us in the Pentecostal movement have not been instructed on the gifts of the Spirit biblically therefore there is a lot of abuse and misuse among us. Truly there are some nutty things out there in the Pentecostal/Charismatic/Full Gospel world.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by scotty

I can speak of this as the one has past.

It was a second cousin of mine, born and raised in the church. She backslid, came back, backslid, came back, etc. etc.

During one of her backslid periods she came to a revival. The visiting preacher walked back to her during alter call and told her, if she didn't make up her mind to come back to God where she knew she belonged her child would be born with problems and she would suffer greatly.

He did this quietly, we know what was said because she repeated it mockingly several times over the next few weeks. 9 months later she gave birth to a metally retarded daughter. 2 years later she died painfully after a long hospital stay for complications due to alcoholism. She would have seizures so strong her eyes would literally pop out. She died during one of those seizures.

I guess eventually God will give you over to your sin.

Interesting...

I have several times had "a word" from God for people but the word wasn't proper for me to tell. I have told God more than one occasion that I don't feel comfortable giving people the "bad news" unless they are going to receive it correctly the way God intended. I have also asked God to confrim that they will receive it well because otherwise all I am doing is adding to the confusion. God, the Holf Ghost, Jesus... He is a gentleman and will give "words" for people that are done in a gentlemanly way. We can be the ones that screw it up, but I refuse to be that guy. I've even told God when He has told me to tell someone something and i don't feel comfortable "No, because I don't feel comfortable doing that or saying that." I believe He knows where my heart is at.

Having said that if i did have an urgent word for someone that was along the nature of what was told to your family member I would first run it by the pastor and see what he says because, if I am a visiting minister, he has to be the one that is there, left to clean up all the confusion I might have caused. There has been more than 1 occasion that I will get something that I know there is no way I will tell that person because they may be a female. So I have my wife tell them. But...I still am VERY, VERY careful when I relay any word to anyone especially to someone that I don't know.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I believe in the gifts of the Spirit and their operation in the church today. I think there is also a caricatured version of the gifts that are at best people trying to make something miraculous happen and at worst being used by the angel of light. Severalmthings I feel strongly about:

1. The gifts are for edification. God may reveal things about someone that has more to do with you praying for them rather than humiliating them. Any revelations of sin or things that could embarrass or drive a person away shouldmbe revealed privately.

2. Prophecies or words of knowledge better be accurate. I had a so-called prophet tell me I had knee problems and disc problems in my back, none of which were true on any level. One defender of the man said, "Well sometimes God will reveal what might happen so the prophet can pray." Well in that case, anyone can be a prophet I suppose.

3. I don't believe that Gifts of the Spirit can only operate in a church service or large gathering/event. It seems that there is this mentality that it takes crusades, revivals or special healing services to have the supernatural/divine take place. In fact I believe more happens out of the spotlight than does in the spotlight. Too often men and ministries get glorified rather than God. Jesus often asked people to not tell what happened to them. he always wanted the glory to go to God. One "prophet" sent word to me through some relatives that if I'd have him come and do a crusade with him that our church would double, guaranteeing that I would never invite him to come. Such hubris does not resonate with me, nor does it reflect the meekness that should come from someone used by God.

4. The gifts should operate according to Biblical order. Paul makes it clear that gifts out of order cause more damage than help. If the way we conduct ourselves in our gatherings causes unbelievers to scratch their heads and to believe we are crazy, Paul says there is a problem. Many of us in the Pentecostal movement have not been instructed on the gifts of the Spirit biblically therefore there is a lot of abuse and misuse among us. Truly there are some nutty things out there in the Pentecostal/Charismatic/Full Gospel world.

Deacon, I couldn't agree with you more. If the gifts are for edification ( not only to saints but unbelievers as well ) I believe the gifts should be used outside of the church doors in a greater manner than within.

I heard a story a few years back by at a church I attended. The pastor was recounting a story from when he was in NYC. He was on a subway going from one stop to another and there was a man in the same car with the minister. The men began to speak and the minister felt God began to work through him. He told the other man many different things about his life and the hurts he had gone through and the minister was able to speak with him for the duration of time and really began to help this man out. Once they arrived at their intended stops the minister said his "good byes"and the other man cried and was greatful for what the minister has said during their conversation. The minister told how this mand was hurt by religion and church and wouldn't have stepped foot in another church again, but God ochestrated this encounter. The gifts, I believe, should be used more like this than within the church walls, but it all must be done with proper edicate and sensitivity.

[Dordrecht]

What does BOTT stand for???

[JamDat]

BOTT = Because of the Times

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by JamDat

BOTT = Because of the Times

Really?
I have never heard of this stuff before?!

[Jay]

Deacon, I agree with you in much of this. I have seen a 'prophet' call people to stand and said things to them, but when we were in the care after church, Dad (who has been used in the past for these things) said that the man was not real. Later I heard that church went rather strange even for a district as loose as the one that we were in.

I have seen more of the gifts used outside of the church service setting, than I have in. However, I believe that it also depends on which gifts are being used. The gifts of the word of wisdom, word of knowledge, and decerning of spirits are likely to be used more often than the people who are opperating in them would believe. However, the gifts of tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophecy seem to be oriented in a church setting according to Paul. As I heard Bro. Stoneking say, "The best gift is the one that fits the situation."