For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?

[houston]

The UPCI does not teach the true gospel. They teach a works based salvation.

Believe
Repent
Baptism
Speak in tongues

Men
Shave your face
Cut your hair

Women
Don't cut your hair
Wear a skirt or dress
Don't wear makeup
Obey your pastor if your husband isn't "saved"

Men & Women
Jump through a ring of fire

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by houston

Men & Women
Jump through a ring of fire

Wow, I like to see that happen.

[NewbieMisfits]

Originally Posted by houston

The UPCI does not teach the true gospel. They teach a works based salvation.

Believe Check
Repent Check (Every dang day)
Baptism Working towards being able to
Speak in tongues Hoping I'm able to ( hoping I can fully die to this world)

^ Are you saying this is not the true gospel?

Men
Shave your face (Nothing wrong with showing some respect to God, but then He engineered us with hair on our face, but then UPC I attend doesn't preach/demand this.)
Cut your hair (Same as above.)

Women
Don't cut your hair (Still unsure & not heard this one yet.)
Wear a skirt or dress (It's discipline & Separation, up until a few generations about all women did.)
Don't wear makeup (Why coverup what ones true self is, but not heard this preached)
Obey your pastor if your husband isn't "saved" (Now this one is a new one to us! Sounds like an odd place & thankful our first Apo Church is nothing like what you are talking here.)

Men & Women
Jump through a ring of fire

(This is only done on Tuesdays....)



Again, I see these as finer details to keep order. Without order great Churches would fall overnight, as it allows the devil greater room to do his dirty work. No Church is perfect not even ours, the question I ask myself is Do I Grow? Is God Present?

[houston]

Originally Posted by NewbieMisfits

(This is only done on Tuesdays....)



Again, I see these as finer details to keep order. Without order great Churches would fall overnight, as it allows the devil greater room to do his dirty work. No Church is perfect not even ours, the question I ask myself is Do I Grow? Is God Present?

To keep order? Or to control the people?

[NewbieMisfits]

Originally Posted by houston

To keep order? Or to control the people?

Well both I guess, you have to control people at a certain level to keep a certain level of order, while at the same time need order to control people.


We are all slaves, we are all followers, but who will be our lord and master?

[The Lemon]

Maybe I am just having a sober moment this morning - or perhaps some will think I am drinking the kool aid but here goes:

It is really easy to be critical of a church, organization, or even a specific minister. I do not condone outright false doctrine, but I know that those who preach a harder line on lifestyle then I live and also in most cases doing more for the kingdom of God then I have ever done in my life.

Alot of these men and women are leading others to Jesus and are handling the burden of leadership on a level that I personally know nothing about. I have no right to talk negative about anybody in the UPC, WPF, or Independant or whatever.

I have to look at myself in the mirror and ask what I am doing for God today, this week, this year etc. I am compelled to love my brothers and sisters, regardless of what I may feel is necessary or not - or what i may perceive as controlling etc. Look at the body of the work they are laying their hands to, if souls are being saved - who cares how ridgid their standards are.

Some folks will thrive in a militant rules filled environment, some will not. The bottom line is we are to work out our own Salvation with both fear and trembling - we are not called to measure ourselves by ourselves.

[StillStanding]

The UPCI and similar Apostolic organizations are indeed monolithic, as are churches in ANY organization. Each organization has a set of guidelines that identify their particular belief system and customs. There's a kind of "safety" in being part of an organization as most decisions are made as a group. This works well for some pastors, as it is like owning a franchise business where the operation standards and rules are solidly in place. Some people work better under this type of accountability.

Keep in mind that there was a church long before there was a bible, church buildings, Hammond organs, alter calls, dress standards, church organization, etc.

[kclee4jc]

if the UPCI is a cult by your all's definition of a cult...then the NT Church was indeed also a cult.

The UPCI preaches the Gospel as the Apostles preached it. My issue with the org itself is an increase in worldliness. There are still many great men in the UPCI.

[n david]

Here's a detailed response for the statement above...

The UPCI is NOT a cult in the derogatory definition you're meaning. You're not forced to do anything. You can leave anytime you want. No one is making you attend, be involved, give, or follow their "rules." Calling the UPCI a cult is just absurd. You don't like the organization, fine; Lord knows, I've had my bad experiences with a few officials in the UPCI also. However, even with those experiences, it's not a cult.

Yes, there are some really bad officials, pastors and ministers in the organization; but you'll find that in ANY organization, it's not just limited to the UPCI.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by n david

Here's a detailed response for the statement above...

The UPCI is NOT a cult in the derogatory definition you're meaning. You're not forced to do anything. You can leave anytime you want. No one is making you attend, be involved, give, or follow their "rules." Calling the UPCI a cult is just absurd. You don't like the organization, fine; Lord knows, I've had my bad experiences with a few officials in the UPCI also. However, even with those experiences, it's not a cult.

Yes, there are some really bad officials, pastors and ministers in the organization; but you'll find that in ANY organization, it's not just limited to the UPCI.

I agree that the UPCI is not a cult. The low bar in which they give ministerial licenses allows some untrained pastors and preachers to go on a power trip and project spiritual abuse that makes their individual church cult-like. What I mean by cult-like is practices like public shunning of any members that don't adhere to strict church practices, pressure to be "all-in" or you're doomed to Hell, and members not allowed to associate with other Apostolic faith churches.

The most cult-like Apostolic churches are independent, as they don't want accountability to any leadership. Many of these churches don't have a church board, but only a board of trustees for property loan purposes. The pastor (king) is not accountable to any members, but members are TOTALLY accountable to him!