Chronic Illness

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by renee819

And Houston, what was the messenger of Satan? A demon?
Paul had authority over demons. He would have just cast it out. Or off of him.

Don't we all have authority over demons? All = people who are saved.

[votivesoul]

Let's also remember not to become like one of Job's "friends" when we see or hear of another saint who is sick, injured, or suffering.

[Lafon]

So what are we supposed to do? This is kinda bad news for me. I've been pretty weak, this winter, but still felt like that God would heal me. But since my problem is chronic, God has not promised to heal. I know, 'by His stripes we are healed” but everyone is not healed.

Sister Renee, what I am about to write is not meant to belittle or condemn you, but I feel that I must point out that the portion of your statement I've taken the liberty to highlight stands in direct opposition to the words of our Lord, to wit, "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive" (Matthew 21:22, KJV).

Please note the following portion of our Lord’s commission to the chosen apostles ...

”And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease” (Matthew 10:1, KJV).

”Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you” (Luke 10:19, KJV).


(Lest we forget, this SAME power remains in effect to be exercised by His chosen people today.)

Pray tell me what part of your "chronic" problem did Jesus omit when He uttered these words. Is there some element of "all things" that we ask of Him wherein He intended that your "chronic" problem was not to be included? The enemy must surely enjoy hearing a saint of God express such lack of faith in the healing power of the Almighty as you’ve done by publishing such a statement.

Yes, I feel that I am well qualified to make such statements to you. FYI, I presently live, and have for sometime now, with what many, if not most, might also call a "chronic" problem. But to most my “chronic” problem would seem to be more dire than your own. For you see, some while ago I was diagnosed as having a disease with a mortality rate of 100%; it is completely outside the realm of medical remedy ... its Medical name is Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis (idiopathic is defined as "having no known cause"). No amount of drugs or medical procedure possesses the ability to cure/heal my disease or prolong my life, only to treat the symptoms, alleviate pain, and, if possible, arrest or prevent any further damage to the affected organs (lungs and heart). I must be continually attached to either an Oxygen Concentrator or portable tanks 24/7, and must constantly monitor my Blood Oxygen levels to insure that they do not fall below acceptable levels. I must carry on my person at all times emergency Inhalants to self-administer should it be that my BO levels begin to drop rapidly.

Yet, despite the gloomy prognosis which confronts me, I can not, indeed, I must not allow my faith in the healing power of God to waiver. I expect a complete recovery, and soon!

If I, for even one moment, as your words so vividly express, entertained the belief that God is unwilling or incapable of healing, then why should I place my confidence and faith in Him or His promise to heal our physical ailments, or yours? Should I do that then why waste my precious time in prayer, fasting, and seeking the healing power of the ONLY source wherein I might find a continuation of my present life? Why don’t I simply do as Job’s wife suggested and die? Nay, I say to you! I believe in the healing power of God, just as much as I believe that the blood He shed at Calvary was able to cleanse me of sin.

I adamantly refuse to submit my mind to doubt and despair, which are the works of the Devil that serve only to slaughter my faith in God. The moment I should ever decide to forsake my faith in God for healing, that is when I begin to lose ground, and I refuse to do that. Neither should you!

[shazeep]

Hmm, those are all valid reflections, i think. Lafon, i agree, but don't think faith is even the issue here; although i certainly might be wrong:

"I don't believe that God healed Paul."

Well, Paul's 'healing' is evident in the verse at the end, here,
although it gets a little better treatment elsewhere, i think:

What God does not remove, He expects us to endure. Application of a Problem Solving Device does not mean an instantaneous solution. Paul understood. He knew that his weakness was an opportunity for the Grace of God. Application of the Problem Solving Device of Grace Orientation would lead to the eventual solution. "Most gladly therefore" is Happiness from God. Paul understood that God is responsible for the problem of Scar Tissue of the Soul and the demon, and God will take care of the problem in due time. The Greek here is much stronger than the English. "I will rather" means that the divine solution of Grace Orientation is the exclusive solution. The human solution is no solution.
"That the power of Christ may reside in me" is different from the rest of the verse, which was about the Power of God and the Grace of God. The word, "reside," means to dwell in a tent, or tabernacle. This brings to bear all the Problem Solving Devices of the Tabernacle, not just Grace Orientation. Christ is symbolized by all the items in the Tabernacle, and each represents a Problem Solving Device (ref. Problem Solving Devices in the Tabernacle). The power of Christ is a special power that Jesus Christ personally gives to believers who are in fellowship with Him. The power of Christ is the power of the Almighty God. If the power of Christ resides in the believer, nothing is more powerful, not Satan, his demons, or the Cosmic System. The power of Christ is the ultimate power from the Creator of the Universe. The power of Christ is the strength and capacity for Life and Love to handle any problem in life. The power of Christ is available to the believer who is in fellowship with Christ.

Furthermore, the Grace solution means that the other solutions to demons in the scripture have been superseded by Church Age doctrine. With the completion of the canon of scripture, many temporary gifts ceased. Paul previously had the power of exorcism. He could cast out demons. But that power had ceased. Exorcism was no longer valid. And prayer would not work. The other technique was to "resist the devil" (James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:8-9), which is still valid, but it was ineffective in Paul's case. Not even Paul's Guardian Angel was able to deal with Paul's demon because God sent the demon and only God in His Grace could remove it.

Paul was one of the few people in history who caught on to Grace Orientation for dealing with scar tissue of the soul and demons. Those who recommend anything other than Church Age doctrine from the epistles for dealing with demons are deceived. The woods are full of worldly proposals for removing demons. Among the false solutions are pleading the blood, invoking the name of Jesus, exorcism, commanding the demons, binding Satan, talking to demons, or quoting scripture. Using a crucifix, holy water, or a paper Bible are equally ludicrous. These things are not sacred. These methods simply play into the hands of the demons, who thrive on attention. The one practicing these things is the dupe. If a person can be frightened, angered, or intimidated by the demon, he has already lost the battle. There are two methods for Christians to deal with demons: (1) Resist the devil, and (2) Grace Orientation. The unbeliever needs the Gospel - not exorcism. See Mystery Babylon the Great, Solution to Demon Attacks for more details.

Therefore, I find contentment in weaknesses, in insults, in distresses, in persecutions, in straits for Christ's sake; for you see, when I am weak, then am I strong. (2 Corinthians 12:10)

or you can see Job's more evident healing, comparable i think because it's another Grace lesson?

[shazeep]

ok, and I'm posting these quotes because they reply to some comments above, and might be pertinent. I'm finding it fascinating that 'affliction' does not necessarily mean 'sin,' a la Job, i guess:

However, the Lord allows the world and the devil access to the believer just as he did to Paul from the thorn demon. Thus, the world and demons have access to the body, which is susceptible to spiritual influence from them. Demons can even implant thoughts directly in the mind or subconscious (Matt 13:19; 16:23; Mk 8:33; Jn 8:44; Eph 2:2; 4:27; Acts 5:3; 1 Tim 4:1; James 3:14-15). False teachers (antichrists) get their messages from demons (1 Jn 4:1-3). Demon influence causes physical weakness, suffering, sickness, and disease (Job 2:6-9; Matt. 9:32–33; 12:22; Mk 5:2-19; 9:17-27; Luke 8:26-35; 13:11–16), as well as dreams, visions, and illusions.


Satanic AttackDirect attacks from Satan and his demons include: (1) Attacks on the head from the Evil King (1 Pet 5:8) and (2) attacks on the body from the Prostitute of Babylon (2 Cor 12:7). Demon attacks on the body can also come from Cosmic, Political, and Ecumenical Babylon. Cosmic attacks are associated with the head. Political attacks target the body. And Ecumenical attacks are upon the feet and legs.

i pay the (admittedly Scripturally based) astrology and hands stuff about as much attention as you do, Renee (although i put my lack of interest down to suppressed education), but when this guy starts talking that cosmic-political-ecumenical stuff, he's hard to refute. here's more that might apply:

Relationship with the Resurrected Christ

Paul described the relationship of a believer with the resurrected Christ.

that I may get to know Him, and the power of His Resurrection, and the participation in His sufferings, having become like Him in His death; (Philippians 3:10)
The power of Christ's Resurrection makes Him Sovereign Ruler over all Creation (1 Tim 6:15; Heb 1:13). Jesus Christ won the victory over Satan and sin on the Cross. The Resurrected Christ is the victor in the Angelic Conflict (Heb 10:12). The Resurrected Christ is also the Head of the Body of the Royal Family of God and the firstborn from the dead (Col 1:18). So, this is the powerful One with whom the believer has a relationship.
Paul continues, "and the participation in His sufferings." Here the Greek summorfivzw (summorphizo) means participation. It can also mean association, connection with, fellowship with, but the best translation here is participation. The believer participates in, or shares, the sufferings of Christ. The believer who represents Christ on the Earth will share in His sufferings. (Jn 15:18; 17:14; Acts 9:15-16; Rom 8:17; 2 Cor 1:5, 7; Col 1:24; 2 Tim 2:12; 1 Pet 4:13; 1 Jn 3:13). In living for Christ, the believer will face suffering from within and without. He will suffer and be persecuted because he is the representative of Christ.

Then Paul says, "having become like Him in His death." This refers to Retroactive Positional Truth (Rom 6:3; Gal 2:20) - we died when Christ died. The death of the believer is the death of the body of sin, which will be followed by the Resurrection (Rom 8:17; 6:5-7; 2 Cor 4:17; Phil 3:11).

Suffering in the Body

Paul explains the sufferings in his body for the Church in Colossians 1:24.

I now rejoice in my sufferings on your behalf, and I fill up what is lacking from the afflictions of Christ in my flesh on behalf of His Body, which is the Church. (Colossians 1:24)
Rejoicing in suffering is using the Problem Solving Device of divine Happiness, which is always available to the believer. Paul continues, "and I fill up what is lacking from the afflictions of Christ." "What is lacking" means: Christ has already suffered on the Cross and before, but Paul has received additional afflictions due to his relationship with the risen Christ. For example, Jesus Christ did not meet the Corinthians and suffer because of it, but Paul is filling in for Christ and receiving suffering from the Corinthians.
Paul says that his afflictions are "in my flesh on behalf of His Body." Paul's afflictions are for the Body of Christ, the Church. The Christian will also receive suffering in his body because of his relation to the Church. Just as Christ suffered in His body for sins, the believer will also suffer in his body because of sin.

Satan's Attack on a Person

Head AttackSatan can attack a person with God's permission (Job 1:12; 2:6).2 The Satanic attack may proceed as follows (Eph 4:17-19):
a. God hardens the heart, which produces Scar Tissue of the Soul (Rom 9:18; Eph 4:19).
b. The Scar Tissue1 blocks God's Light, which opens up a hole in the subconscious and produces Blackout of the Soul (BOS) (Eph 4:18).
c. The soul is infiltrated by the OSN, which has an affinity for the Cosmic System. The desires of the OSN invite the Cosmic System into the soul (Eph 4:17).
d. Satan and his demons have access to the soul and body (Eph 2:2).
e. The pressure from the attack of Satan as the Evil King produces stress in the brain stem, which takes a person's breath away and chokes the person or causes many other symptoms2 (1 Pet 5:8). See Satanic Attack: Chronic Gagging, Choking, Coughing Disorder.

http://www.biblenews1.com/sin/sin.htm

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by shazeep

I just posted a video on another healing thread, a very powerful one, that might be considered to be coming from a secular perspective. What i liked about it was that it appears to connect faith with healing, and gives the science--if you can buy that--of how faith is effective. It should be pretty easy to find, or i can fetch it--but I'd also like to point out that if you are eating--an act which must be correlated with taking in Scripture, for a Christian--CAFO protein, and the chemical concoctions dubbed 'food' at the grocery store, i have to wonder a) how much of this 'confidence' you may expect to have, and b) how close you may be to actually ingesting 'witchcraft' unawares.

While this might seem like a stretch, note that you are going to go have a mammogram, ladies, when vitamin D deficiency is a better marker for breast cancer?

A vit D deficiency is a marker for breast cancer? I don't think so. Mammos are the best at determining any abnormalities. Lots of people, including men, have vit deficiencies. Ask any non-milk drinker who lives in a cold climate.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Me too. My personal belief is that it is the prescriptions and antibiotics that are the problem. You can google 'pink snow,' (or anything, now : ) looks like prolly algae. Google 'Leukemia natural cures' and run from those allopaths, imo.

Yes, Dr's medicines usually do me more harm than good.

God put herbs here for our healing. I wish there was a Naturepath Dr. close, but the nearest is 50 miles away.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by renee819

God put herbs here for our healing.

To include marijuana, right?

[shazeep]

I'm convinced that pot was made illegal so hemp would be made illegal, because industrialists just could not compete with hemp. on any level. it used to be mandatory to grow it. They have discovered that it doesn't even adversely affect the lungs to smoke it, which surprised me. Great for what ails ya. Hi protein and Omega 3. And you can make anything from it.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Don't we all have authority over demons? All = people who are saved.

I would seek deeper sources for that if i were you. http://biblenews1.com/sin/demons.htm

Originally Posted by Sasha

A vit D deficiency is a marker for breast cancer? I don't think so...

well, it's searchable. profound, i think, even if not strictly true in some sense?

Originally Posted by renee819

Yes, Dr's medicines usually do me more harm than good.

God put herbs here for our healing. I wish there was a Naturepath Dr. close, but the nearest is 50 miles away.

i think if you just get raw local milk, honey and eggs and eat simply, with an herb spiral outside your window, that should take care of most of it. but Rx and antibiotics are just a bad way to go imo; at the least they necessitate a cleanse/detox for Candida, etc.

[renee819]

OK, by farther study, I think I might see where I was wrong in some of this. Paul's thorn in the flesh, was “asthenia.” James describing 'sickness” was also “astheneo.” I still see it as Paul's sickness.

James 5:14 Is any sick (astheneo) among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, (kamno) and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. (astheneia) Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, (astheniah) that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, (astheneia) in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, (astheneho) then am I strong.

Kamno---Vine's Words: Faint, Sick, Sickly, Sickness, Weary
..
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
be wearied 1
sick 1
faint 1
[Total Count: 3]
..
apparently a primary verb; properly to toil, i.e. (by implication) to tire (figurative faint, sicken) :- faint, sick, be wearied

Now to the word, afflicted---

James 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

When I think of 'afflicted” I think of a chronic disease. And in that case, if it was, there was no promise of healing. However, all sickness seems to be covered in vs, 14-15. and afflicted seems to be the hardness of things and troubles that happen in our life.
Afflicted----Vine's Words: Afflict, Affliction, Hardship
..Usage Notes:
..English Words used in KJV:
endure hardness 1
suffer trouble 1
endure affliction 1
be afflicted 1
[Total Count: 4]
..
from the same as <G2552> (kakopatheia); to undergo hardship :- be afflicted, endure afflictions (hardness), suffer trouble

It wasn't a matter of no faith, with me. I believe that I have faith to be healed. But if afflicted and afflictions was chronic illness then there was no promise as to what would happen when we pray. There was no promise of healing of afflictions, as there was for sickness.

So why no promise? If it is the hardness and troubles in our lives, it may be the troubles that we have brought on ourselves. In that case, we have many lessons to learn. And by prayer and giving ourselves over to the will of God, He teaches us. Or if caused by others, it will take God to move on the situation.
There could be no promise, because it is left up to each individual as to how they will respond to the things that come into our lives. We can do nothing, or we can fight flesh and blood, or we can ask direction, thru prayer, from our Father, as we do what we know to do.

I've written this in spurts, I hope it makes sense.