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01-17-2016, 04:48 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 5,540
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
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Originally Posted by CC1
The part I bolded shows how you present a false conundrum. Having a pastor vs plural equal pastors does not mean the single pastor is a dictator.
You are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Just because there are some bad apples out there who are dictatorial you want to replace them with a two headed monster than in most instances will not work.
As I said you are welcome to engage in whatever form of church government you like but don't act like it is some kind of biblical imperative that we all join your lunacy.
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This opens up a new level to the conversation. What it comes down to is the teachings of the New Testament. Does the New Testament permit a one-man pastor model?
If yes, then it doesn't matter what anyone else has to say. If not, no amount of wanting it to be so can make it okay with God.
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01-17-2016, 05:02 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Wisconsin Dells
Posts: 2,941
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
After 35 years, yes, I need a pastor.
Submission deflates pride.
Our pastor is not overbearing or controlling.
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01-17-2016, 07:20 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41,044
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
The part I bolded shows how you present a false conundrum. Having a pastor vs plural equal pastors does not mean the single pastor is a dictator.
You are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Just because there are some bad apples out there who are dictatorial you want to replace them with a two headed monster than in most instances will not work.
As I said you are welcome to engage in whatever form of church government you like but don't act like it is some kind of biblical imperative that we all join your lunacy.
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Two headed monster?
Seriously? 
That like the young man who when asked "whose your pastor?'
He answered "Jesus"
The questioner then replied "Oh, your one of those?" 
If Jesus isn't your shepard, then no one is your shepherd.
Two headed monster?
Good God from Zion.
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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01-17-2016, 09:58 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta
After 35 years, yes, I need a pastor.
Submission deflates pride.
Our pastor is not overbearing or controlling.
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__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-17-2016, 10:00 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
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Originally Posted by votivesoul
I don't think the verse means what you think it means.
We aren't to think that because the roman soldier was a man under authority that it somehow granted him exceptional faith.
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It was a principle Jesus condoned and approved of and means a whole lot. Jesus saw how he applied that principle to the Kingdom.
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Rather, because he was a man under authority, he realized in the same way, the sickness afflicting his servant was under the authority of Christ, and in the same way he could give an order to an underling and expect it to be obeyed, the sickness could receive but an order from Christ, without any other demonstration, and it--the sickness--should obey the Lord.
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He knew Christ was under authority.
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This is what caused Jesus to marvel at the man's faith. Here a un-covenated pagan understood the Messianic authority over sickness better than the people of God who had been promised a Messiah with power over sickness and disease.
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That and more.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-17-2016, 10:01 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
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Originally Posted by good samaritan
The Bible says nowhere that a man needs another man as a covering..
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I disagree.
Heb 13:17 KJV Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-17-2016, 10:03 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
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Originally Posted by thephnxman
"Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you
be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility..."
Is there another Moses TODAY [besides Jesus], or perhaps I have missed
something? Yes, the offices in the Ministry should submit one to another,
for none is greater than the other: but all complement one another!
The one-man rule is contrary to scripture.
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You missed what I said. Moses is like Jesus. And as Moses had men over thousands, etc. under them, Jesus has men over people as well. But the people are submitting to the Lord working through these men, not the men and nothing more.
Paul said "Follow me as I follow Christ." When Paul implied when if did not follow Christ, then not to follow him.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-17-2016, 10:04 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Where does it say Paul started out lacking in wisdom?
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Act 9:29-31 KJV And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. (30) Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus. (31) Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Why do you think he stirred people up and the apostles sent him away? (Which the Spirit condoned, by the way).
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-17-2016, 10:04 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Where does the Bible say "we must have a man over us as a covering"?
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Heb 13:17 KJV Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-18-2016, 01:49 AM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,945
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Act 9:29-31 KJV And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. (30) Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus. (31) Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Why do you think he stirred people up and the apostles sent him away? (Which the Spirit condoned, by the way).
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It doesn't say 'Paul lacked wisdom'. It just says he disputed with unbelieving Jews, and they went about to kill him. The brethren, desiring to save his life, sent him to Tarsus (which apparently was his home town?) and the churches had 'rest' in Jewry, because one of the main persecutors of the church was now an apostolic preacher.
If you are suggesting that people getting stirred up (becoming opposed to the gospel preaching) is a sign of lacking wisdom, then Paul never did wise up, cause his preaching eventually got him killed. Just like it got Jesus killed.
Also, it doesn't say 'the apostles' sent him away, it says 'the brethren' did that.
I think you are reading quite a bit into the text that isn't there?
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