Were tithes ever required by Jesus or the Apostles?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

That would be a pretty self-defeating doctrine to teach for most traditional preachers.

And it begs the question: What, exactly, does a preacher want from you if he teaches against tithing?

Such a preacher is proselytizing the weak and the carnal-minded from other flocks, but to what end, and to what result?

To preach against tithing AS A LAW, frees people from error.

I've proven God time and time again that tithing opens up the windows of heaven of blessing upon me. I've heard countless fellow Christians testify of the same.

Anything done in faith brings a blessing. But when people give tithes out of LAW and legislation, they are not blessed. Multitudes can attest to that.

By the same token, when I have struggled in the past, and shorted God of my tithes, I've had multiple appliances and vehicles all break down in the same month. God will more fully bless the believer who keeps an open hand.

Not tithing won't condemn a person. Tithing won't save a person. But a person's reaction to the concept of tithing is an accurate measurement of their faith and commitment. If a person struggles to put God first in this department, they will struggle to put God first in other areas.

I disagree with your thoughts about things going wrong if we fail to tithe. That is law's curse. Cursed is one if one does not continue to do all the law. But if one gives in faith, one will be blessed!

If we make it a law, then we put ourselves under the curse and we will be cursed. And those things you describe will occur.

Gal 3:10 KJV For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Pay tithes, but NOT AS A LAW nor as an escape from cursing. Jesus became a curse for us! That is our only escape from the cursing... not paying tithes. Christ paid the price for the curse, not your tithes.

Gal 3:13 KJV Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

[OP_Carl]

I have yet to attend a church whose bylaws did not stipulate that for one to be a member in full fellowship with voting privileges, one must have paid their tithe faithfully for at least six months.

I think most people, if they adopted a faith-based system of free-spirit giving would end up destroyed by the ensuing free-spirit spending that inevitably results in our culture of consumerism and predatory consumer credit policies.

I still say it is a measure of both faith and commitment, and even house-churches will quickly tire of free-spirit giving freeloaders.

Striving toward steadiness in giving teaches one steadiness in ALL areas of their finances. On a planet of seven billion people, there is only ONE person who is looking your for YOUR financial best interests, and that is YOU. Wouldn't you like to implement a steady plan for spending and saving your money, and avoid ruination?

Have it your way. Go ahead and try this NEW doctrine and see if it's an improvement over the practices of believers over the centuries.

Perhaps your free-spirit preacher will decide to pray for your family, officiate your kids weddings, and conduct your funerals only when he feels he has the faith and unction to do so? Maybe the church will only have service when the spirit has moved enough people to have the lights and water turned back on?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

I have yet to attend a church whose bylaws did not stipulate that for one to be a member in full fellowship with voting privileges, one must have paid their tithe faithfully for at least six months.

I think most people, if they adopted a faith-based system of free-spirit giving would end up destroyed by the ensuing free-spirit spending that inevitably results in our culture of consumerism and predatory consumer credit policies.

I still say it is a measure of both faith and commitment, and even house-churches will quickly tire of free-spirit giving freeloaders.

Striving toward steadiness in giving teaches one steadiness in ALL areas of their finances. On a planet of seven billion people, there is only ONE person who is looking your for YOUR financial best interests, and that is YOU. Wouldn't you like to implement a steady plan for spending and saving your money, and avoid ruination?

Have it your way. Go ahead and try this NEW doctrine and see if it's an improvement over the practices of believers over the centuries.

Perhaps your free-spirit preacher will decide to pray for your family, officiate your kids weddings, and conduct your funerals only when he feels he has the faith and unction to do so? Maybe the church will only have service when the spirit has moved enough people to have the lights and water turned back on?

I don't know that what you are saying is correct. There are plenty of non-denominational churches that are doing just fine without tithing being a requirement for membership.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Rico

I don't know that what you are saying is correct. There are plenty of non-denominational churches that are doing just fine without tithing being a requirement for membership.

Interesting, Rico.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rico

I don't know that what you are saying is correct. There are plenty of non-denominational churches that are doing just fine without tithing being a requirement for membership.

Very true.

[mfblume]

New doctrine??? LOL. Oh, well, if NEW Testament is too new for you, well then...

2Co 9:7 KJV Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The fact is that tithing as a law is something that is not New Testament. Period.

And the TRUE teaching of giving is that we strive for SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS and not money. This is not new. It is what the bible taught.

Luk 16:11 KJV If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

TRUE riches are spiritual! Not carnal like money. Do not confuse what I say with some nonsense about seeking monetary wealth! My goodness! It is seeking TRUE RICHES of spiritual things.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by mfblume

New doctrine??? LOL. Oh, well, if NEW Testament is too new for you, well then...



The fact is that tithing as a law is something that is not New Testament. Period.

And the TRUE teaching of giving is that we strive for SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS and not money. This is not new. It is what the bible taught.



TRUE riches are spiritual! Not carnal like money. Do not confuse what I say with some nonsense about seeking monetary wealth! My goodness! It is seeking TRUE RICHES of spiritual things.

I didn't say tithing is a NT law!

But tithing has been a NT principle and practice for 2000 years.

It fits right in there with modesty as a principle that is encouraged, not mandated, in an effort to improve the spiritual walks of believers and keep them striving for perfection.

Our Southern Baptist, AME, UMC, and COGIC friends would have some stern words for anybody suggesting that the principle of tithing be hung out to dry, and reliance on free-spirit giving to replace it. Why should it appeal to Apostolics?

I don't give because I greedily want and expect a monetary blessing from heaven's cash register drawer in return!

I give because I believe in the ministries and missions of my local church assembly, and I want to help and to be a blessing.

If you were running your own business, which would be more helpful? Sporadic or steady income? Do your creditors accept free-spirit-guided payment plans?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

I didn't say tithing is a NT law!

Then what is your problem? I said give tithes! But do not think you are cursed if you do not. IOW, don't make it a law.

But tithing has been a NT principle and practice for 2000 years.

Incorrect. Actually the Catholic Church re-implemented it after law was gone centuries after the church began.

From http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14741b.htm

TITHING - -Catholic Encyclopedia.

In the Christian Church, as those who serve the altar should live by the altar (1 Corinthians 9:13), provision of some kind had necessarily to be made for the sacred ministers. In the beginning this was supplied by the spontaneous offerings of the faithful. In the course of time, however, as the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to make laws which would insure the proper and permanent support of the clergy. The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law, and early writers speak of it as a divine ordinance and an obligation of conscience. The earliest positive legislation on the subject seems to be contained in the letter of the bishops assembled at Tours in 567 and the canons of the Council of Maçon in 585. In course of time, we find the payment of tithes made obligatory by ecclesiastical enactments in all the countries of christendom. The Church looked on this payment as "of divine law, since tithes were instituted not by man but by the Lord Himself" (C. 14, X de decim. III, 30).

At least they admitted they made it a law.

It fits right in there with modesty as a principle that is encouraged, not mandated, in an effort to improve the spiritual walks of believers and keep them striving for perfection.

Our Southern Baptist, AME, UMC, and COGIC friends would have some stern words for anybody suggesting that the principle of tithing be hung out to dry, and reliance on free-spirit giving to replace it. Why should it appeal to Apostolics?

I don't give because I greedily want and expect a monetary blessing from heaven's cash register drawer in return!

I give because I believe in the ministries and missions of my local church assembly, and I want to help and to be a blessing.

If you were running your own business, which would be more helpful? Sporadic or steady income? Do your creditors accept free-spirit-guided payment plans?

It is fine to give to keep the work of God going. But Jesus encouraged people to give so it would be given back to them. And so long as it is not a law, THEN FINE. But take note that the catholics made it LEGALISM, and a law. And I am afraid many Apostolics followed suit.

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

I didn't say tithing is a NT law!

But tithing has been a NT principle and practice for 2000 years.

It fits right in there with modesty as a principle that is encouraged, not mandated, in an effort to improve the spiritual walks of believers and keep them striving for perfection.

Our Southern Baptist, AME, UMC, and COGIC friends would have some stern words for anybody suggesting that the principle of tithing be hung out to dry, and reliance on free-spirit giving to replace it. Why should it appeal to Apostolics?

I don't give because I greedily want and expect a monetary blessing from heaven's cash register drawer in return!

I give because I believe in the ministries and missions of my local church assembly, and I want to help and to be a blessing.

If you were running your own business, which would be more helpful? Sporadic or steady income? Do your creditors accept free-spirit-guided payment plans?

2000 years?? Are you sure? Let us try closer to 1600 or so. A little accurate church history wouldn't hurt.

[mfblume]

Here is the issue. FEAR. DOUBT. UNBELIEF. People who legislate tithes are AFRAID they will not get the offerings they need. What is that? Unbelief and fear.

Those who give and know God blesses givers, wil give, and the church lights will continue to burn!