Billy Graham

[RachelRose]

Originally Posted by LongBeachCA

I always liked Billy as well. I can not judge and say anything about no one but myself. But once upon a time, the UPC churches preached the TV would send us to hell. And going to the MOVIES would to. And ROCK MUSIC would to. BOWLING ALLEYS SKATING RINKS I have heard it all in my childhood. And look at how things have changed, NOW you can wear RINGS have TV"S and BEARDS now. THE UPCI keeps changing with time. I believe one day, they are going to look like everyone else in the TRINITY WORLD and it won't be long. I see where women in high positions are wearing skirts above the KNEES even ministers wives. I was looking at a video and pics of a FAMOUS MINSTER who pastors a church and he is a MAJOR SINGER and has a big church and his 1st LADY was putting pics on the internet of her in a 2 PIECE BATHING suit with the TOP off. I could not believe what I was seeing. And this minister and singer is famous in the circles of pentecost , he was at the MS CAMP MEETING in the MOVIE "BORAT". I am not even going to put his initials on here.

But he thought that he was going to SUE BOART MOVIE MAKER SASCHA BARON COHEN for making that movie at the MS CAMP MEETING and so did my mom's pastor who was the PRESB of MS district at the time, they all thought they were going to SUE MR CHOEN for TRICKING them. And no one not one pastor had any DISCERNMENT about the actions of this man, Any idiot can see he was FAKING and if you listen to the words he was saying you can easily put 2 & 2 together to figure out this guy is making a FOOL and Mockery out of these PEOPLE. But the church failed and could not SUE because SASHA BARON COHEN had them sign a document that kept them from taking any legal action. But the thing that gets me NOT ONE MINISTER THERE not even my MOM"S. PASTOR who claims to have discernment could pick up on what this guy was doing. It is a funny movie to watch.

So with TIME I believe that the church UPCI standards have changed to the point where BIG NAME women are painting their faces for CD'S and VIDEOS that are going out into the world and they are going on TBN and having MAKEUP for TV used. YET they preach against using makeup. They are wearing FRENCH MANICURES which I don't see anything wrong with that one. But LIPSTICK RUGE EYELINER BROW LINER BASE EYE PAINT. Either you are or you ain't HOLINESS there is no in-between. But don't preach to people and then go get on TBN or shoot a MAJOR PROFESSIONAL VIDEO and PAINT yourself up. That is just wrong. SLITS in the back and front of their SKIRTS 1/2 way up from the kNEE , People are watching APOSTOLIC PENTECOSTALS very CLOSELY. NOW that the MANGUNS have went on TV they are going to know more about the UPCI than ever before. TBN is a HUGE OUTLET it's one of the LARGEST if not the LARGEST Broadcast in the world. Little by little they keep changing letting more and more things creep in. You cannot CHANGE and expect the world to respect you. THEY WON"T respect you.

I sat in more services I can possibly count were GA Mangun said the trinity system will be the gateway for the Pope to bring all the churches together. Now I see his son Antony appearing on TBN. What a mess.

[Michael The Disciple]

Aquila

I think it is important to define "faithful minister". Do we mean a man who was faithful to all he understood regarding the Christian faith, faithful to his wife, faithful to his children, faithful to his church? Being "faithful" doesn't really have anything to do with doctrine.

Jude 3

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

1 Tim. 1:3

As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

1 Tim. 4:16

16Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Paul put his DOCTRINE at the top of the list of his faithfulness.

10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

[Michael The Disciple]

A note of interest. This is a post from a thread about Billy Grahams belief in Trinity.

Originally Posted by onefaith2 View Post
In response to whether or not Christians believe in three gods, He said this

No, Christians don't worship three different Gods. They worship only one God - because no other deity exists in addition to Him. The Bible says, "Take to heart this day that the Lord is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other" (Deuteronomy 4:39).

It's true, however, that the Bible tells us that Jesus is also God, and the Holy Spirit is also God. How can this be? Theologians have pondered this for centuries, and I admit that it's not easy for us to understand. (In fact, we'll probably only understand it completely when we get to heaven.) But this much is clear: God has shown Himself to us in three ways - as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each has a separate function - and yet they are all united as one God.

Let me illustrate it this way. Have you ever thought of some of the things we see around us that are both three - and yet also one? Centuries ago, St. Patrick used a clover leaf to teach the Irish about this - it has three leaves, and yet is still only one leaf. Or think of water. A quart of water can be ice, water, or steam - but it's still the same quart of water.


from http://www.billygraham.org/articlepa...articleid=5421

The boldened words to me lean more to Oneness because he says God shows himself in 3 WAYS. That is normally what Oneness would say. Trins would normally say 3 PERSONS.

[LongBeachCA]

I was really glad that someone decided to post Dr. Billy Graham and his death here on this site. I am curious because of the way I was taught and preached to in my church and almost every church I attended from 14 years old and up, has taught what BISHOP N A URSHAN said on the video when he was asked to do that DEBATE which I will post a LINK in where URSHAN was cornered into basically saying that if the guy he was speaking to doesn't not follow thru with the way URSHAN believes then HE IS NOT A BROTHER to HIM(URSHAN)

My question is this: I even heard it from my grandmother and now my mother. They say that if you can't get to heaven if you are not doing ACTS 2:38 getting baptized in the name of JESUS and SPEAK IN TONGUES as the evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost you are not going to make it to heaven. They are not coming out and saying you are going to HELL but you might as well say that. Many UPCI churches do say that. And it is a HUGE TURN OFF. many of the mega churches in the UPCI got big because they stopped that HARD CORE PREACHING and started loving more and using less HELL FIRE Preaching and JUDGING from the PULPITS.
SO MY QUESTION is this: we all know DR BILLY GRAHAM does not believe in ONENESS and most of the TRINITY not all but MOST of them think speaking in TONGUES is of the DEVIL or some say you should not do it unless there is an INTERPRETER AND MESSAGE GIVEN. SO if he didn't follow ACTS 2:38 and didn't have the Holy Ghost was not BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME and didn't speak in tongues where did he GO??? APOSTOLIC PENTECOSTALS think that the ONENESS WAY IS THE ONLY WAY and if you are not ONENESS JESUS NAME then you are not going to make it. THOUGHTS????????
https://youtu.be/K-HyvlG74ag

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by LongBeachCA

I was really glad that someone decided to post Dr. Billy Graham and his death here on this site. I am curious because of the way I was taught and preached to in my church and almost every church I attended from 14 years old and up, has taught what BISHOP N A URSHAN said on the video when he was asked to do that DEBATE which I will post a LINK in where URSHAN was cornered into basically saying that if the guy he was speaking to doesn't not follow thru with the way URSHAN believes then HE IS NOT A BROTHER to HIM(URSHAN)

My question is this: I even heard it from my grandmother and now my mother. They say that if you can't get to heaven if you are not doing ACTS 2:38 getting baptized in the name of JESUS and SPEAK IN TONGUES as the evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost you are not going to make it to heaven. They are not coming out and saying you are going to HELL but you might as well say that. Many UPCI churches do say that. And it is a HUGE TURN OFF. many of the mega churches in the UPCI got big because they stopped that HARD CORE PREACHING and started loving more and using less HELL FIRE Preaching and JUDGING from the PULPITS.
SO MY QUESTION is this: we all know DR BILLY GRAHAM does not believe in ONENESS and most of the TRINITY not all but MOST of them think speaking in TONGUES is of the DEVIL or some say you should not do it unless there is an INTERPRETER AND MESSAGE GIVEN. SO if he didn't follow ACTS 2:38 and didn't have the Holy Ghost was not BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME and didn't speak in tongues where did he GO??? APOSTOLIC PENTECOSTALS think that the ONENESS WAY IS THE ONLY WAY and if you are not ONENESS JESUS NAME then you are not going to make it. THOUGHTS????????
https://youtu.be/K-HyvlG74ag

how bored are you?

[Michael The Disciple]

QUOTE by Long Beach

I always liked Billy as well. I can not judge and say anything about no one but myself.

Well GENERALLY SPEAKING I am compelled to judge by the words of Jesus and the Apostles. EXPRESSLY SPEAKING I am compelled to believe in the "light" doctrine.

Romans 2:14

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

[Aquila]

I believe that God is sovereign.

Romans 9:15-16 King James Version (KJV)
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I mentioned that I pray that God has "mercy" on Billy Graham because without a sovereign act of God's mercy, I don't believe he will go to Heaven.

When it comes to eternity, I believe that we need to leave the final decision of a man's eternal state to God and God alone.

But... when I comes to teaching doctrine... that's another matter. Because of doctrinal differences, I cannot say with any assurance that Graham is in Heaven. However, I know men of God who obeyed and taught Acts 2:38 who I am 99% sure made it to Heaven.

I'll tell people that if they want to be certain that they are saved, they need to do what the Apostles taught which is to repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of their sins, and be filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). But... if they want to take their chances with traditional main stream Christian religion... no one is stopping them. I warn them that without having a real Acts 2:38 experience with God, they can never have any assurance of their salvation and that they are gambling with their eternity. If you want blessed assurance, get saved just like the Bible says.

I got the Holy Ghost…down in my soul…just like the Bible says…
I got the Holy Ghost…down in my soul…just like the Bible says
I got the Holy Ghost… down in my soul…just like the Bible says…

I’ve been to the river and I’ve been baptized…
My soul got happy, and I’m satisfied…
I’ve got my hand on the gospel plow…
And I wouldn’t take nothing for my journey now
Just like the Bible…Just like the Bible…Just Like the Bible says

I got the Holy Ghost…down in my soul…just like the Bible says…
I got the Holy Ghost…down in my soul…just like the Bible says
I got the Holy Ghost… down in my soul…just like the Bible says…

I’ve been to the river and I’ve been baptized…
My soul got happy, and I’m satisfied…
I’ve got my hand on the gospel plow…
And I wouldn’t take nothing for my journey now
Just like the Bible…Just like the Bible…Just Like the Bible says

I got the Holy Ghost…down in my soul…just like the Bible says…
I got the Holy Ghost…down in my soul…just like the Bible says
I got the Holy Ghost… down in my soul…just like the Bible says…

I’ve been to the river and I’ve been baptized…
My soul got happy, and I’m satisfied…
I’ve got my hand on the gospel plow…
And I wouldn’t take nothing for my journey now
Just like the Bible…Just like the Bible…Just Like the Bible says

Just like the Bible…Just like the Bible…Just Like the Bible says

[Aquila]

The Bible is infallible. Our interpretations and understanding of it are not.

For this reason, I believe we should allow God to be God. Leave it to God to determine the final outcome of those Christians who do not embrace the Apostolic doctrine as we do. For He alone is sovereign. He has the power and authority to have mercy upon whom He will have mercy. This doesn't weaken the Apostolic message. Instead, it affirms God's power and authority. It elevates Him above being a lap dog whom we expect to bark in accordance to our human interpretations of Scripture.

Did Billy Graham make it? I don't know. What I do know is that Graham didn't embrace Apostolic doctrine. Therefore, apart from God choosing to have mercy, Billy Graham isn't in Heaven.

Do I pray that God had mercy on Billy? Yes. I am not ashamed to say that I took a moment and prayed that God have mercy on Billy Graham. Will God have mercy? That is entirely up to God. And God is worthy of our praise and worship no matter what God chooses to do with a human soul. For His judgments are always righteous, just, and in accordance to His loving and holy nature.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Bible is infallible. Our interpretations and understanding of it are not.

For this reason, I believe we should allow God to be God. Leave it to God to determine the final outcome of those Christians who do not embrace the Apostolic doctrine as we do. For He alone is sovereign. He has the power and authority to have mercy upon whom He will have mercy. This doesn't weaken the Apostolic message. Instead, it affirms God's power and authority. It elevates Him above being a lap dog whom we expect to bark in accordance to our human interpretations of Scripture.

Hence the reason why individuals like my old pap, believed that Christians (or any religion) was delusional. It's like this 2+2 = 4, not 2,345. Or 5, or 1. You might get away your entire life not knowing math or even knowing how to read. You may of even convinced yourself that math or reading wasn't important. We even meet others who are illiterate, and we start to get comfortable. Even those who know math even give a pass to those who don't. Now we end up with a world view which is extremely skewed.
The Bible doesn't have 52 different views, that is because of a plethora of reasons you come up with bad addition. That isn't God's fault, He has been trying to teach you simple math. Yet, through arrogance, pride, and dramatic emotions we disregard God's call.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Did Billy Graham make it? I don't know. What I do know is that Graham didn't embrace Apostolic doctrine. Therefore, apart from God choosing to have mercy, Billy Graham isn't in Heaven.

Yet, the Apostles didn't preach that we had other options. Jesus was emphatic, He said that the Way was hard to navigate, the opening was almost closed, and few would find that opening Matthew 7:13-14 . Seriously?

I'm going to circumvent all that, because I want my Catholic grandmother or Jewish aunt to make it to glory by default? Here is my brother's Apostolic Abuelita praying on her knees, reading a studying her Bible, witnessing in Colombia.
She did the same things as my Roman Catholic MeeMaw. Yet, when they both get in front of God, God lets them both in? Hey, that might work in the J. R. R. Tolkien's world of Middle Earth, but is that merciful? Where is Abuelita's mercy? How was that even fair? That salvation's final outcome wasn't even predicated on scripture, but on something totally different. Something Jesus and His apostles never even taught?

The whole thing about God all of a sudden changing the rules at the last minute is our own self deception.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do I pray that God had mercy on Billy? Yes.

Why? You looking for a ecclesiastical merit badge? Mercy on Billy Graham? My brother you have a plethora of Apostolic Pentecostals who broke their rear ends preaching, teaching, sweating it out for the Gospel. Apostolic to the bone, wearing out the tips of their shoes in a prayer room, worn out knees in suits. Walking all over the place all over the globe, trying to win souls while sucking on their wallets. Missionaries who are killing it day in and day out, sometimes living in bad conditions. Pray for them bro, pray for them. Pray for Apostolics to have mercy. Instead of some jackleg jellybean who gets prayers from you only because he is famous. Good God from Zion!

Originally Posted by Aquila

I am not ashamed to say that I took a moment and prayed that God have mercy on Billy Graham.

Your not ashamed, because it is legalism. It is being "Christian" the population around you expect you to pray for an American High Priest. Like a haircut, shave, and shoeshine can make someone "look" Churchy. So does all the piety of praying for the other team.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Will God have mercy? That is entirely up to God. And God is worthy of our praise and worship no matter what God chooses to do with a human soul. For His judgments are always righteous, just, and in accordance to His loving and holy nature.

Chris, that isn't praising Him that is accusing Him of unrighteousness. He told Balaam in Numbers 23:19 that He wasn't a liar like man, because if He said it, He would make good on what He said. You are teaching that God at the last minute and the most crucial time, changes the game. Good luck with that.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

H

Yet, the Apostles didn't preach that we had other options. Jesus was emphatic, He said that the Way was hard to navigate, the opening was almost closed, and few would find that opening Matthew 7:13-14 . Seriously?

I'm going to circumvent all that, because I want my Catholic grandmother or Jewish aunt to make it to glory by default? Here is my brother's Apostolic Abuelita praying on her knees, reading a studying her Bible, witnessing in Colombia.

She did the same things as my Roman Catholic MeeMaw. Yet, when they both get in front of God, God lets them both in? Hey, that might work in the J. R. R. Tolkien's world of Middle Earth, but is that merciful? Where is Abuelita's mercy? How was that even fair? That salvation's final outcome wasn't even predicated on scripture, but on something totally different. Something Jesus and His apostles never even taught?

The whole thing about God all of a sudden changing the rules at the last minute is our own self deception.