Why are UPC church's so sectarian?

Originally Posted by UltraCon

Yes the disagreements are worth fighting over because I see them as a salvation issue. What saints in your church may look at as bondage is to us part and parcel of our salvation. I happen to believe that holiness is Biblical and we teach seperation from the world. I'm not at all scared of our saints becoming liberal. If fact, in the religious wasteland that we live there are several liberal churches that would love to have our people come over and be "enlightened". Our people love holiness and they love truth and these two are one and the same. Here's how I really look at it. I grew up COG and if I got back to that it's exactely that, going back. If we preach seperation from the world and we go back to "liberalism" we are doing just that. I'm not condeming you or anyone else, these are just my views, this is what I preach. I knew about bondage when I was in the world smoking and drinking. I've been called to "be ye seperate from among them", i'm the one that has been liberated with an eye-opening experience.

Why is it that the favorite scripture UC's quote on holiness is this one...be ye seperate from among them". Do you even know what Holiness is? I don't mean to be critical friend, but let me share something with you. Holiness is defined biblically as how close you are to God. The closer you are to God, the holier you are. The Holy Bible is holy because it belongs to God. Israel is the Holy land because its close to God. In the old testament, the closer you were to God, the holier you became. Prophets were hoy men of God. The temple was holy. The outer court was holy, but the inner court was holier. Of course the holiest place of all was the "holy of holies" where God himself dwelt.
During the old testament and Jesus' day, there was varying degrees of holiness base upon your position, where you stood on the land and in the law. Now, Eph. 2:14, 18 describes what Jesus did for us. He tore down the walls of partition and we all have access in one Spirit to the Father. There are no more degrees of holiness because we have all been placed into Christ which is our holiness before God.
Gal. 3:27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Holiness if found in Jesus and He alone. Man's holiness is as filthy rags. There is none holy, no not one...Finally holiness is not about what you do as it is about who you are and what position you hold. All believers after calvary have been made Holy in Christ. Now, conduct, behavior, sin issues, etc. are important, but do nothing to attain holiness. Bad conduct destroys your testimony and your faith which will lead to a lose of relationship with Christ. God bless and I still love you!!!

Originally Posted by Sacerdotal

Tell me you are not equating the UPC with the shameful blight of being a slave owner! If so that is the most ignorant thing I've ever read on this forum.

Under your name is "get over it", I suggest you follow your own mantra! Why are you so angry and defensive? I wasn't equating any such thing. It was a metaphor!!!

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

Under your name is "get over it", I suggest you follow your own mantra! Why are you so angry and defensive? I wasn't equating any such thing. It was a metaphor!!!

Got to admit that when I read it the first time it looked like you were equating the UPC with slaveowners. With threads like this its often hard to tell just how far they are going to go in attacking the UPC. Unfortunately, some just get used to seeing the worst.

The clarification should help.

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Got to admit that when I read it the first time it looked like you were equating the UPC with slaveowners. With threads like this its often hard to tell just how far they are going to go in attacking the UPC. Unfortunately, some just get used to seeing the worst.

The clarification should help.

Thanks, i don't just love the UPC, I love EVERYBODY TOO! Including those who persecute me and consider themselves my enemies...I think I read that somewhere...hmmm

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sacerdotal

Tell me you are not equating the UPC with the shameful blight of being a slave owner! If so that is the most ignorant thing I've ever read on this forum.

The comparison is not so far fetched in some cases. There are controlling pastors that consider the members in their churches to be their private property and expect them to be completely submissive to the pastor's every whim. How often do you hear folks classified as "Bro. So-and-so's saints" or "Bro. Whatzisname's saints"?

Originally Posted by Sam

The comparison is not so far fetched in some cases. There are controlling pastors that consider the members in their churches to be their private property and expect them to be completely submissive to the pastor's every whim. How often do you hear folks classified as "Bro. So-and-so's saints" or "Bro. Whatzisname's saints"?

Your right. Maybe I shouldn't have been so defensive...

[Sam]

Jesus was condemned by the holiness people of that day because He was a friend of sinners. He was called a glutton and a winebibber. In my opinion, He represents true holiness. He just didn't fit in with their definition of what holiness was. They were hung up on the seed counting, fringe measuring, sabbath rules, etc. He was concerned about people and their needs.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

Your right. Maybe I shouldn't have been so defensive...

Well, the post to which you responded mentioned the UPC. We can't just broad brush the whole UPC. There is too much diversity within it. I would not call the whole UPC a cult but there are some local churches (UPC and other) that are very cultic in their control, exclusiveness, belief in superior revelation, and "us vs. them" mentality.

Originally Posted by Sam

Well, the post to which you responded mentioned the UPC. We can't just broad brush the whole UPC. There is too much diversity within it. I would not call the whole UPC a cult but there are some local churches (UPC and other) that are very cultic in their control, exclusiveness, belief in superior revelation, and "us vs. them" mentality.

It all boils down to pride. Religious pride. Elitism. It's everywhere in every church and every denomination. The word "denomination" means a divided nation. Too much about me and what I want and not about what Jesus died for. Been there, done that, got the tshirt. Ready to win souls for the kingdom.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

Why is it that the favorite scripture UC's quote on holiness is this one...be ye seperate from among them". Do you even know what Holiness is? I don't mean to be critical friend, but let me share something with you. Holiness is defined biblically as how close you are to God. The closer you are to God, the holier you are. The Holy Bible is holy because it belongs to God. Israel is the Holy land because its close to God. In the old testament, the closer you were to God, the holier you became. Prophets were hoy men of God. The temple was holy. The outer court was holy, but the inner court was holier. Of course the holiest place of all was the "holy of holies" where God himself dwelt.
During the old testament and Jesus' day, there was varying degrees of holiness base upon your position, where you stood on the land and in the law. Now, Eph. 2:14, 18 describes what Jesus did for us. He tore down the walls of partition and we all have access in one Spirit to the Father. There are no more degrees of holiness because we have all been placed into Christ which is our holiness before God.
Gal. 3:27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Holiness if found in Jesus and He alone. Man's holiness is as filthy rags. There is none holy, no not one...Finally holiness is not about what you do as it is about who you are and what position you hold. All believers after calvary have been made Holy in Christ. Now, conduct, behavior, sin issues, etc. are important, but do nothing to attain holiness. Bad conduct destroys your testimony and your faith which will lead to a lose of relationship with Christ. God bless and I still love you!!!

I'll say "amen" to this.