MARK JOHNSTON DROPS THE BOMB....The Aftermath

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I don't know about you, but I think most Christians NEED some sack cloth and ashes preaching once in a while. The flesh is weak, and it needs some readjusting from time to time. MJ's message wasn't ranting and raving as you put it, it was a sure Word from the Lord that frankly not only needs to be heard to OPs but to ALL of Christiandom. There is way too much celebrity-seeking in churches and movements rather than serving and ministry to the Body and to the lost.

Its easy to be an armchair quarterback....................................... ..........

I will take your word for it, that this is the type of preaching that is needed. That fact alone seems to agree with J-Roc posts on the need for maturity.

Please give one thing of substance that a person could quantify and use as a stepping stone to greater ministry.

Again I define it as "shotgun" preaching that pelts everyone yet a few days later is healed and business as usual. True directional teaching is hard work, this is temporary, raises the emotions but no lasting impact. Requires a regular fix to keep the hearers charged.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I will take your word for it, that this is the type of preaching that is needed. That fact alone seems to agree with J-Roc posts on the need for maturity.

Please give one thing of substance that a person could quantify and use as a stepping stone to greater ministry.

Again I define it as "shotgun" preaching that pelts everyone yet a few days later is healed and business as usual. True directional teaching is hard work, this is temporary, raises the emotions but no lasting impact. Requires a regular fix to keep the hearers charged.

It seems you are the only one that has understood what I am getting at. They seem to think I am against the message...when I have repeatedly demonstrated that I am wondering why they still are dealing with this issue...

....they seem to think that if God still wants to speak this message to them it must reflect a good situation.

...if God is still dealing with this, I doubt he has a smile on his face thinking "well done my good and faithful servant"....I would think his attitude would be more like "wake up you sleeper"

At this stage, this should not be the discussion...the effective training that you speak of, Crakjak, should already be showing good fruit....but it seems that the alphabet is still being reviewed...

...hey Prax, I'll be right back....I'm going to go study the alphabet right now...I need to remind myself that "G" comes after "F"....

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave

Do you or do you not believe that the message was sent from God? That is the question, J-Roc.

See below and I'll let you draw your conclusions:

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Here we have an organization that is over 60 years old and God speaks to the constituency through this man of God....

…but no, instead, God speaks to the constituency through the mouth of this preacher telling it to grow up.

Originally Posted by J-Roc

God put this on his heart to speak because of something he must be observing as a problem within the leadership, no? After 60 years, should leadership be dealing with this immature problem?


Hebrews 5 said it best: "We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness."

Originally Posted by J-Roc

instead, the ministry receives a tongue-lashing for the state-of-the-union (I am not questioning the necessity of the message...evidently, it was needed. Rather, I'm questioning the maturity of the group that had to hear this elementary teaching after 60 years)....this is an embarrassing and shameful condition.

[drummerboy_dave]

Really, I am finished here. This is what denial looks like, folks.

Originally Posted by J-Roc

They seem to think I am against the message...when I have repeatedly demonstrated that I am wondering why they still are dealing with this issue...

Because it's still a problem in God's eyes.

....they seem to think that if God still wants to speak this message to them it must reflect a good situation.

No, it's not a good situation.

...if God is still dealing with this, I doubt he has a smile on his face thinking "well done my good and faithful servant"....I would think his attitude would be more like "wake up you sleeper"

Are you awake, yet?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Cheap shots, J-Roc, cheap shots.

One cannot judge an entire movement based on one sermon. And I do believe that this is a problem across the board in North America. I would say by and large most of North America battles with these kinds of temptations and allures. Hero worship comes naturally to the flesh and those who are ready and willing to be worshipped are many.

A critical and cynical attitude is evidence of shallow infantile spirituality, Roc. You should just thank God MJ obeyed the Lord, that people didn't need an "altar song" to manipulate them to the altar, and that people left rejoicing that the Lord loved them enough to chastise their carnality.

This is Christ's church and He is in control; if He wants a heavy, convicting message, then that's His prerogative. You work on Mr. Roc and let Jesus work on His church.

Cheap shots? This is God's message, no? He is the one with the wake-up call, isn't he? And now it's a cheap shot to ponder this message? Would it be better if we just sweep this message under the rug and pretend it never happened? should we just let the tears dry up after the tongue-lashing and then go back to business as usual....or should we reflect on this poor state and ponder on how to create lasting change...crakjak shared some suggestions on how to create lasting change.

Don't compare North America to the church, and much less to the leadership of the church. Don't pacify and justify a poor attitude of pride and need for significance and chalk it off to "oh well, most every other human is dealing with this and this is natural"


I just don't get it how you could think that people should walk away "happy that the Lord loved me enough to chastise me." This kind of attitude does nothing to correct the situation...it's just about a warm fuzzy feeling inside that the Lord rebuked me and no thought about how to correct this chronic problem within the Leadership...I find this bizarre and foreign. ( and I keep harping on the leadership because this message was mainly directed at the leadership...this was the Man of God, speaking the words of God to the Leadership...I'm simply reviewing God's words)

Major changes are needed and this isn't corrected by warm fuzzy feelings and silence thereafter...

MJ has made the state-of-the-union quite clear...Jeff Arnold did too at BOTT 07...

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave

Really, I am finished here. This is what denial looks like, folks.Because it's still a problem in God's eyes.

No, it's not a good situation.
Are you awake, yet?

Drummerboy, I have not directed this to any individual and you seem to keep taking a personal issue against me. You're making this personal...back up, dude.


Also, unfortunately, you are not following accurately and have totally misunderstood what I have said....a careful review will show you that you are misinterpreting.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

After many years of lack of depth in GC messages, you are correct. This was Dead On and really good.

I agree... I heard him preach this summer at my daughter's camp.. preached along the same lines the entire week... it was very much needed and you could just feel the times when he was hitting raw nerves... but it is needed.