Steadfast Conference - Indianapolis, IN - Taking place this week

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Ummmm my guess is NO. I am almost sure he is willing to bet none of the students know that. The do not teach that in Bible school.

Do not teach that trinitarians are saved?

Or do not teach that the founders of the Oneness movement believed trinitarians were saved?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Do not teach that trinitarians are saved?

Or do not teach that the founders of the Oneness movement believed trinitarians were saved?

I am sure he means that the IBC students are not taught that many if not all of the Oneness Pentecostal pioneers felt that trinitarians were "brothers in Crhist" and "saved".

Just as a JCM Theology major in the late 70's I never heard one word about this aspect of the UPC / Oneness history.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by CC1

I am sure he means that the IBC students are not taught that many if not all of the Oneness Pentecostal pioneers felt that trinitarians were "brothers in Crhist" and "saved".

Just as a JCM Theology major in the late 70's I never heard one word about this aspect of the UPC / Oneness history.

are you sure about that? I have heard for years that Ron fisher taught otherwise

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Thad

are you sure about that? I have heard for years that Ron fisher taught otherwise

It was Don Fisher not Ron Fisher and I am positive. Numerous JCMers from that "liberal" era of the school have posted on AFF, NFCF and FCF before that to the fact that none of us heard the PCI view taught. Not even in a historical sense in regard to its position in the UPC's past.

One year C.H. Yadon was even at school as a guest teacher and he never rocked the boat by bringing any of that up.

There may have been some private conversations going on to that effect but nothing in the classrooms and nothing I heard in private.

Pianoman, Rhoni, and a host of others there during that time can back this up.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by CC1

It was Don Fisher not Ron Fisher and I am positive. Numerous JCMers from that "liberal" era of the school have posted on AFF, NFCF and FCF before that to the fact that none of us heard the PCI view taught. Not even in a historical sense in regard to its position in the UPC's past.

One year C.H. Yadon was even at school as a guest teacher and he never rocked the boat by bringing any of that up.

There may have been some private conversations going on to that effect but nothing in the classrooms and nothing I heard in private.

Pianoman, Rhoni, and a host of others there during that time can back this up.

DON Fisher. I have heard Cons say for years of how he warped the minds of our youth at JCM with false doctrines

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Thad

DON Fisher. I have heard Cons say for years of how he warped the minds of our youth at JCM with false doctrines

I know. I think they just assumed that because the school was "liberal" in some ways for back then.

Back when at ABI the guys had to sit on one side of the cafeteria at meal time and the girls on the other JCM had no such rules.

JCM also had people wearing short sleeve shirts and T Shirts and jeans when playing sports, etc.

Back in the late 70's when it was a big deal for guys to not have hair touching or over their ears JCM always had a few guys who got away with it a little longer than the UPC generally approved.

Students were treated more like adults at a real college than the other UPC Bible Colleges of the day and I think that contributed to the lib rep.

Not to mention threre were lots of wild music majors in with us serious theology and Christian ed majors!!! LOL!!!

Although TLC and Mary Francis Craft were strict about some things (MFC would visit the girls dorms and talk to them about not wearing broaches, etc) FPC and JCM was liberal in some other areas.

At FPC and JCM banquets for instance they would sometimes have secular songs. At a valentines banquet I remember Becky Dansby singing "I honestly Love You" which was a popular secular song at the time. That was radical for back then!!

TLC also was a very positive preacher. Although he kept a pretty strict standard at his church (no cut hair on women, no wedding rings unless you were a wealthy tithe payer, etc) he never preached a laundry list from the pulpit. He handled things privately one on one or in an annual closed door church meeting. That was very different from many UPC churches of the day.

At that time the charismatic movement was starting to boom and I think TLC was hopeful that they might be "looking our way".

Originally Posted by CC1

It was Don Fisher not Ron Fisher and I am positive. Numerous JCMers from that "liberal" era of the school have posted on AFF, NFCF and FCF before that to the fact that none of us heard the PCI view taught. Not even in a historical sense in regard to its position in the UPC's past.

One year C.H. Yadon was even at school as a guest teacher and he never rocked the boat by bringing any of that up.

There may have been some private conversations going on to that effect but nothing in the classrooms and nothing I heard in private.

Pianoman, Rhoni, and a host of others there during that time can back this up.

What is so funny is that the bastion of conservative Pentecostal thought, TBC, absolutely brought out this history in its teachings, dealt with it factually and praised God for what we as an organization of diverse men had become. All of this with EL Holley as the principal of the school.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by philjones

What is so funny is that the bastion of conservative Pentecostal thought, TBC, absolutely brought out this history in its teachings, dealt with it factually and praised God for what we as an organization of diverse men had become. All of this with EL Holley as the principal of the school.

That is pretty amazing as E.L. Holley was not exactly a tolerant man of diverse views!

Originally Posted by CC1

That is pretty amazing as E.L. Holley was not exactly a tolerant man of diverse views!

Understatement alert!!!

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by CC1

It was Don Fisher not Ron Fisher and I am positive. Numerous JCMers from that "liberal" era of the school have posted on AFF, NFCF and FCF before that to the fact that none of us heard the PCI view taught. Not even in a historical sense in regard to its position in the UPC's past.

One year C.H. Yadon was even at school as a guest teacher and he never rocked the boat by bringing any of that up.

There may have been some private conversations going on to that effect but nothing in the classrooms and nothing I heard in private.

Pianoman, Rhoni, and a host of others there during that time can back this up.

As a former JCM'r I can tell you that what CC1 says is true. Bro. Yadon's daughter is a dear friend to me now and through the past 30 years. None of the staff, including Don Fisher, ever brought up their PCI views. The first I heard of it was on FCF and Timlan explained it to me as we went thorugh portions of Thomas Fudge's book.

The thought at JCM was more liberal than I had been taught as I was an unltra-conservative from Ohio District, but what I liked about the way we were taught is that many sides to all issues were discussed in an educational/professional way but they NEVER told you what to think or what choice to make. The answer was always to pray and search the scriptures for yourself and make your own decision.

I can honestly say that I was NOT indoctrinated at JCM with any particular view but the atmosphere was one of growth and learning for yourself. We were treated as adults [well, for the most part LOL]

Blessings, Rhoni