Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Mental illness is diagnosed through behavior pathology.

It is believed that a person who is mentally healthy would not under normal circumstances exhibit the behaviors of someone who is mentally ill.

These behaviors, in no particular order, include things like:

- Anger/Rage
- Lying/Dishonesty
- Irrational fears/phobias/paranoia
- Sexual deviancy
- Violent uncontrollable outbursts
- Inappropriate words and actions
- Delusions
- Narcissism
- Desire to harm
- Panic/anxiety attacks
- Displays of ego/pride
- Prolonged sadness/depression
- Loss of hope
- Loss of joy
- Unwillingness or inability to cope with life
- Degradation of the body
- Addiction
- Bitter/caustic personality
- And etc.

Pray tell, how many of the above behaviors or symptoms of mental illness are called works of the flesh in the Bible, which otherwise are called sins, each of them or together barring someone from inheriting eternal life?

Seems to me that every one of them can be linked to at least one sin, if not more. Therefore, every one of these behaviors and symptoms can be addressed by the very thing God put into place and action to save a person and protect them from the law of sin in their members, namely the Gospel.

You see, I have perhaps a unique experience that many of my brethren in the faith do not have: I was possessed by evil spirits for nearly ten years, and oppressed by them from the time I was a little kid. My mom was also possessed, as were both of my brothers. My dad and stepdad, however, were not.

There are things about "mental illness" that only someone who has actually been mentally ill can know. There are things about demonic affliction, oppression or possession that only people who were so afflicted can know.

I've been committed to a psychiatric ward. I've had my shoelaces taken away. I've slept in beds with restraints on them. I've had nurses come in at 4:00am and take my blood to make sure the dosages of whatever various meds I was being given were correct. I remember them coming in and how surreal it was, and how impossible it was to do anything but lay there because I was too drugged up to stop them. I even know what it's like to be cavity searched to make sure I wasn't trying to smuggle contraband into the hospital. I know what 200 mg of Prozac a day can do to a fifteen year old. I know what it's like to sleep 20 hours a day every day of the week because the meds I was on turned me into a near-lifeless zombie. I know what it's like going from a strong, physically fit athlete to a wasting away shell of my former self. I know what it's like to have to take B vitamin supplements just to keep myself alive. To being so physically weak I couldn't handle stairs so my mom brought my bed down into the laundry room. I know what it's like to forget how to speak because of selective mutism. To be removed from school and become a "home-bound" student, who only just barely passed his classes because a teacher took pity on me and volunteered to come to my house once a week for nearly three months to help me with my homework. I even know what it's like to lose fifty pounds of mostly muscle in the space of four months and nearly die because I was starving myself, having no desire to live.

And I tell you all the truth, here and now. Everything I just wrote and everything related to what I just wrote, but have not shared, that would seemingly be about mental illness instead is the direct result of the law of sin in my members. Because while I know all about those things, I also know how blasphemous toward God I was. How manipulative and deceitful I was. How arrogant and proud I was. How full of lust and perversion I was. How monstrous and inhuman and indifferent I was.

When my mom attempted suicide, I was content to let her die, and even though I could hear plainly what was happening, instead of going to her rescue or calling for my stepdad, I smiled and turned the volume of the TV up. When, after my step-dad found her and she was rushed to the hospital I called my brothers with glee to tell them what was happening, and when I arrived at the emergency room, my stepdad a complete wreck, by brothers pacing like caged animals, I sat down to read from The Antichrist by Friedrich Nietzsche. She survived, to my dismay.

A few years later, I talked my oldest brother into killing himself because I hated him and wished he'd just die and be done with it. Some time after that phone call, he began stabbing himself in the stomach with a steak knife. Only his girlfriend's intervention kept him from doing more harm to himself. He survived, to my dismay.

My point is, the reason I was "mentally ill" is because I was spiritually damned. Had I been raised in a Godly home and had I received the Holy Spirit as a child, none of the above would have ever taken place. There would have been no demonic oppression then possession when I was fifteen. I would have not engaged in such heinous sinfulness. Jesus would have already saved me before anything of the sort would have ever taken place.

So what's the conclusion? It is the saving of the soul that either prevents or eliminates the "mental illnesses" that otherwise exist in and amongst the lost in sin, damned masses of unbelievers. To say otherwise is to say that the Gospel is the power of God to kind of save, and that God is able to save to a partial extent all who come to Him through Jesus Christ His Son.

I serve God with a pure conscience and testify to all that I am complete in Him. If a person cannot find that purity of conscience and completeness in Christ alone, where and how in the world do they hope to find it someplace else?

Salvation is not merely just the saving of some intangible idea of a soul for some distant hard to comprehend, mysterious afterlife. It's for the here and now, too, with the hope of eternal life to come. If your eye offends you, pluck it out, and enter into life partially blinded. If your right hand offends you, cut it off and enter into life maimed.

But remember: just because you're partially blind and are maimed, doesn't mean you're not whole. Sin and the law of sin working through the carnal mind and the flesh thereof is the only thing preventing a child of God from the wholeness, soundness, and blamelessness Jesus can and does provide.

No one is separated from God on account of their mental illness. They are separated from God on account of their sin. But His arm is not shortened, dear brothers and sisters, nor His ear too heavy, that He cannot reach or hear, because He is not slack concerning His promises. Don't just talk about trusting Him. Actually do it. Take your concerns, your doubts, your worries, your fears, your weaknesses, your complaints, and all that is wrong with you, all these things that constitute a mental illness, and go boldly into the throne room of grace and find help in the time of need.

I know I did, and when I did, He saved me, healed me, freed me, and adopted me as His child. Now He walks with me and talks with me and tells me I'm His own. That life is worth the living just because He lives. That I can have a little talk with God to tell Him all about my problems because He knows and He cares. That He is my shelter in the time of storm. He's my haven of rest and I don't have to needlessly bear any sorrow, shame, or pain, because I have a friend in Jesus.

And guess what? He can be your friend, too. Just lean into the everlasting arms of the Father who loves you unconditionally with an everlasting love and let the false narrative the devil has fed you regarding how you think things are and have to be, get nailed to the cross, and walk away a new man or woman of God Most High.

thank you for posting this Brother.

[Amanah]

To the captive it looks like freedom
To the orphan it feels like home
To the skeptic it might sound crazy
To believe in a God who loves
In a world where our hearts are breaking
And we're lost in the mess we've made
Like a blinding light in the dead of night
It's the Gospel, the Gospel that makes a way

It's the cure for our condition, it's the good news for us all It's greater than religion, it's the power of the cross
So can we get back to the altar, back to the arms of our first love?
There's only one way to the father and he's calling out to us

To the captive it looks like freedom
To the orphan it feels like home
To the skeptic it might sound crazy
To believe in a God who loves
In a world where our hearts are breaking
And we're lost in the mess we've made
Like a blinding light in the dead of night
It's the Gospel, the Gospel that makes a way

In my own life it means forgiveness, when I know I deserved the fall
It called me out of my darkness, and carried me to the cross
In a moment my eyes were opened, in that moment my heart was changed
Like a blinding light in the dead of night it's the gospel

To the captive it looks like freedom
To the orphan it feels like home
To the skeptic it might sound crazy
To believe in a God who loves
In a world where our hearts are breaking
And we're lost in the mess we've made
Like a blinding light in the dead of night
It's the Gospel, the gospel that makes a way

Ryan Stevenson, Bryan Fowler, Toby McKeehan


Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76
Sister Alvear - the daughter of some good friends of ours was healed during the service, Thursday night. She is around 16 years old and three years ago was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. She has been on chemo drugs to help and it still was not effective. But, God healed her on Thursday night!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear
Hundreds of us were praying and fasting for God to move...God is so good and honors His precious word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear
that is so awesome...several have written me they were healed...well that is what he believes...the old time way....God bless you all.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...t=51294&page=2

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Mental illness is diagnosed through behavior pathology.

It is believed that a person who is mentally healthy would not under normal circumstances exhibit the behaviors of someone who is mentally ill.

These behaviors, in no particular order, include things like:

- Anger/Rage
- Lying/Dishonesty
- Irrational fears/phobias/paranoia
- Sexual deviancy
- Violent uncontrollable outbursts
- Inappropriate words and actions
- Delusions
- Narcissism
- Desire to harm
- Panic/anxiety attacks
- Displays of ego/pride
- Prolonged sadness/depression
- Loss of hope
- Loss of joy
- Unwillingness or inability to cope with life
- Degradation of the body
- Addiction
- Bitter/caustic personality
- And etc.

Pray tell, how many of the above behaviors or symptoms of mental illness are called works of the flesh in the Bible, which otherwise are called sins, each of them or together barring someone from inheriting eternal life?

Seems to me that every one of them can be linked to at least one sin, if not more. Therefore, every one of these behaviors and symptoms can be addressed by the very thing God put into place and action to save a person and protect them from the law of sin in their members, namely the Gospel.

You see, I have perhaps a unique experience that many of my brethren in the faith do not have: I was possessed by evil spirits for nearly ten years, and oppressed by them from the time I was a little kid. My mom was also possessed, as were both of my brothers. My dad and stepdad, however, were not.

There are things about "mental illness" that only someone who has actually been mentally ill can know. There are things about demonic affliction, oppression or possession that only people who were so afflicted can know.

I've been committed to a psychiatric ward. I've had my shoelaces taken away. I've slept in beds with restraints on them. I've had nurses come in at 4:00am and take my blood to make sure the dosages of whatever various meds I was being given were correct. I remember them coming in and how surreal it was, and how impossible it was to do anything but lay there because I was too drugged up to stop them. I even know what it's like to be cavity searched to make sure I wasn't trying to smuggle contraband into the hospital. I know what 200 mg of Prozac a day can do to a fifteen year old. I know what it's like to sleep 20 hours a day every day of the week because the meds I was on turned me into a near-lifeless zombie. I know what it's like going from a strong, physically fit athlete to a wasting away shell of my former self. I know what it's like to have to take B vitamin supplements just to keep myself alive. To being so physically weak I couldn't handle stairs so my mom brought my bed down into the laundry room. I know what it's like to forget how to speak because of selective mutism. To be removed from school and become a "home-bound" student, who only just barely passed his classes because a teacher took pity on me and volunteered to come to my house once a week for nearly three months to help me with my homework. I even know what it's like to lose fifty pounds of mostly muscle in the space of four months and nearly die because I was starving myself, having no desire to live.

And I tell you all the truth, here and now. Everything I just wrote and everything related to what I just wrote, but have not shared, that would seemingly be about mental illness instead is the direct result of the law of sin in my members. Because while I know all about those things, I also know how blasphemous toward God I was. How manipulative and deceitful I was. How arrogant and proud I was. How full of lust and perversion I was. How monstrous and inhuman and indifferent I was.

When my mom attempted suicide, I was content to let her die, and even though I could hear plainly what was happening, instead of going to her rescue or calling for my stepdad, I smiled and turned the volume of the TV up. When, after my step-dad found her and she was rushed to the hospital I called my brothers with glee to tell them what was happening, and when I arrived at the emergency room, my stepdad a complete wreck, by brothers pacing like caged animals, I sat down to read from The Antichrist by Friedrich Nietzsche. She survived, to my dismay.

A few years later, I talked my oldest brother into killing himself because I hated him and wished he'd just die and be done with it. Some time after that phone call, he began stabbing himself in the stomach with a steak knife. Only his girlfriend's intervention kept him from doing more harm to himself. He survived, to my dismay.

My point is, the reason I was "mentally ill" is because I was spiritually damned. Had I been raised in a Godly home and had I received the Holy Spirit as a child, none of the above would have ever taken place. There would have been no demonic oppression then possession when I was fifteen. I would have not engaged in such heinous sinfulness. Jesus would have already saved me before anything of the sort would have ever taken place.

So what's the conclusion? It is the saving of the soul that either prevents or eliminates the "mental illnesses" that otherwise exist in and amongst the lost in sin, damned masses of unbelievers. To say otherwise is to say that the Gospel is the power of God to kind of save, and that God is able to save to a partial extent all who come to Him through Jesus Christ His Son.

I serve God with a pure conscience and testify to all that I am complete in Him. If a person cannot find that purity of conscience and completeness in Christ alone, where and how in the world do they hope to find it someplace else?

Salvation is not merely just the saving of some intangible idea of a soul for some distant hard to comprehend, mysterious afterlife. It's for the here and now, too, with the hope of eternal life to come. If your eye offends you, pluck it out, and enter into life partially blinded. If your right hand offends you, cut it off and enter into life maimed.

But remember: just because you're partially blind and are maimed, doesn't mean you're not whole. Sin and the law of sin working through the carnal mind and the flesh thereof is the only thing preventing a child of God from the wholeness, soundness, and blamelessness Jesus can and does provide.

No one is separated from God on account of their mental illness. They are separated from God on account of their sin. But His arm is not shortened, dear brothers and sisters, nor His ear too heavy, that He cannot reach or hear, because He is not slack concerning His promises. Don't just talk about trusting Him. Actually do it. Take your concerns, your doubts, your worries, your fears, your weaknesses, your complaints, and all that is wrong with you, all these things that constitute a mental illness, and go boldly into the throne room of grace and find help in the time of need.

I know I did, and when I did, He saved me, healed me, freed me, and adopted me as His child. Now He walks with me and talks with me and tells me I'm His own. That life is worth the living just because He lives. That I can have a little talk with God to tell Him all about my problems because He knows and He cares. That He is my shelter in the time of storm. He's my haven of rest and I don't have to needlessly bear any sorrow, shame, or pain, because I have a friend in Jesus.

And guess what? He can be your friend, too. Just lean into the everlasting arms of the Father who loves you unconditionally with an everlasting love and let the false narrative the devil has fed you regarding how you think things are and have to be, get nailed to the cross, and walk away a new man or woman of God Most High.

Wow. What a testimony. I praise God with you for what He's done in your life. I've never been possessed. I believed I've suffered from demonic oppression on a few occasions. I believe that mental illness is a side effect of demonic oppression or possession. In other words - all who have mental illness are not demonized. However, all who are demonized suffer from mental illness. Having something so evil constantly oppressing you or possessing you can take its toll on the mind and I believe it can even effect how the brain works. A complete deliverance comes with not only removal of the unclean spirit(s) but also a healing of the mind. That is why the Bible mentions that the demoniac was delivered and in his right mind:

Mark 5:15
And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

But miracles are strange things. Sometimes complete healing or deliverance from a condition doesn't occur immediately. Sometimes, for there to be complete healing, there must be a "second touch" from God. We read about many who were blind receiving immediate healing from Christ. However, on at least one occasion we read that a man needed a second touch to receive total healing:

Mark 8:22-25 King James Version (KJV)
22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

I believe this is why many who have had devils cast out of them may continue to suffer mental illness for a period of time even after their deliverance. It may also tie into why some people are completely healed of every condition upon being saved, but others continue to suffer the effects of various conditions after being born again. I know of a woman who is bipolar. When she was born again she stopped taking her meds. It went badly and she had to get back on her meds to stabilize. Our pastor was very upset that this woman ceased taking her meds without talking to anyone. In a service following this situation our pastor told us that if we were on medication for a condition, and we prayed for healing, we were to continue taking our medication. He assured us that when God heals, it will become obvious that the medication is unnecessary because the medication will make us feel sick as the body rejects it. He told us to let our doctor see the power of God as they discover that our medication is making us sick because we've been healed.

I felt that this was a balanced and responsible position to take so it's been my opinion for years. I'm not judging a person who feels impressed by the Spirit to drop their medication. I'm just saying that in cases involving some rather serious conditions it would be wise to continue the medication until the healing is confirmed.

[Aquila]

I found it interesting that on several occasions Jesus used spit when healing people.

Mark 7:32-34
32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him.
33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue;
34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.

Mark 8:23
And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

John 9:6
When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

What many don't know is that saliva was believed by the ancients to have healing properties. It was an ancient form of topical medication believed to heal wounds and fight infection. What is even more interesting is that science is beginning to unlock the secrets of saliva's healing properties. Here's an excerpt on the subject that I found interesting:

Aside from the antimicrobial properties, saliva contains epidermal growth factors, leptin, lysophosphatidic acid, hyaluronan, and histatin that promote wound healing. Moreover, opiorphin in saliva has analgesic effects. Because of these, saliva became a potential subject for studies in wound healing. It has been found that saliva helps to create a favorable environment in the oral cavity for the inflammatory cells which are important during the initial phases of wound healing, because they speed up blood clotting mechanism as a response to injury. Growth factors especially the epidermal growth factor then mediates proliferation of epithelial cells and formation of new blood vessels to replace damaged tissues. Finally, histatin, a salivary protein that is also known for its broad spectrum antimicrobial action against bacteria, viruses and fungi stimulates wound closure. This may explain the underlying principle behind a faster rate of wound healing in the mouth without scarring despite the presence of numerous microorganisms and the correlation between wound licking and healing.

http://salivafacts.blogspot.com/2015...of-saliva.html

Jesus occasionally used popular folk medicine along side of His healing power.

[Jermyn Davidson]

FACT:
http://www.protectthebrain.org/Brain...t-is-CTE-.aspx



This just came out today!

FACT:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/health...-brains-study/

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Mental illness is diagnosed through behavior pathology.

It is believed that a person who is mentally healthy would not under normal circumstances exhibit the behaviors of someone who is mentally ill.

These behaviors, in no particular order, include things like:

- Anger/Rage
- Lying/Dishonesty
- Irrational fears/phobias/paranoia
- Sexual deviancy
- Violent uncontrollable outbursts
- Inappropriate words and actions
- Delusions
- Narcissism
- Desire to harm
- Panic/anxiety attacks
- Displays of ego/pride
- Prolonged sadness/depression
- Loss of hope
- Loss of joy
- Unwillingness or inability to cope with life
- Degradation of the body
- Addiction
- Bitter/caustic personality
- And etc.

Pray tell, how many of the above behaviors or symptoms of mental illness are called works of the flesh in the Bible, which otherwise are called sins, each of them or together barring someone from inheriting eternal life?

Seems to me that every one of them can be linked to at least one sin, if not more. Therefore, every one of these behaviors and symptoms can be addressed by the very thing God put into place and action to save a person and protect them from the law of sin in their members, namely the Gospel.

You see, I have perhaps a unique experience that many of my brethren in the faith do not have: I was possessed by evil spirits for nearly ten years, and oppressed by them from the time I was a little kid. My mom was also possessed, as were both of my brothers. My dad and stepdad, however, were not.

There are things about "mental illness" that only someone who has actually been mentally ill can know. There are things about demonic affliction, oppression or possession that only people who were so afflicted can know.

I've been committed to a psychiatric ward. I've had my shoelaces taken away. I've slept in beds with restraints on them. I've had nurses come in at 4:00am and take my blood to make sure the dosages of whatever various meds I was being given were correct. I remember them coming in and how surreal it was, and how impossible it was to do anything but lay there because I was too drugged up to stop them. I even know what it's like to be cavity searched to make sure I wasn't trying to smuggle contraband into the hospital. I know what 200 mg of Prozac a day can do to a fifteen year old. I know what it's like to sleep 20 hours a day every day of the week because the meds I was on turned me into a near-lifeless zombie. I know what it's like going from a strong, physically fit athlete to a wasting away shell of my former self. I know what it's like to have to take B vitamin supplements just to keep myself alive. To being so physically weak I couldn't handle stairs so my mom brought my bed down into the laundry room. I know what it's like to forget how to speak because of selective mutism. To be removed from school and become a "home-bound" student, who only just barely passed his classes because a teacher took pity on me and volunteered to come to my house once a week for nearly three months to help me with my homework. I even know what it's like to lose fifty pounds of mostly muscle in the space of four months and nearly die because I was starving myself, having no desire to live.

And I tell you all the truth, here and now. Everything I just wrote and everything related to what I just wrote, but have not shared, that would seemingly be about mental illness instead is the direct result of the law of sin in my members. Because while I know all about those things, I also know how blasphemous toward God I was. How manipulative and deceitful I was. How arrogant and proud I was. How full of lust and perversion I was. How monstrous and inhuman and indifferent I was.

When my mom attempted suicide, I was content to let her die, and even though I could hear plainly what was happening, instead of going to her rescue or calling for my stepdad, I smiled and turned the volume of the TV up. When, after my step-dad found her and she was rushed to the hospital I called my brothers with glee to tell them what was happening, and when I arrived at the emergency room, my stepdad a complete wreck, by brothers pacing like caged animals, I sat down to read from The Antichrist by Friedrich Nietzsche. She survived, to my dismay.

A few years later, I talked my oldest brother into killing himself because I hated him and wished he'd just die and be done with it. Some time after that phone call, he began stabbing himself in the stomach with a steak knife. Only his girlfriend's intervention kept him from doing more harm to himself. He survived, to my dismay.

My point is, the reason I was "mentally ill" is because I was spiritually damned. Had I been raised in a Godly home and had I received the Holy Spirit as a child, none of the above would have ever taken place. There would have been no demonic oppression then possession when I was fifteen. I would have not engaged in such heinous sinfulness. Jesus would have already saved me before anything of the sort would have ever taken place.

So what's the conclusion? It is the saving of the soul that either prevents or eliminates the "mental illnesses" that otherwise exist in and amongst the lost in sin, damned masses of unbelievers. To say otherwise is to say that the Gospel is the power of God to kind of save, and that God is able to save to a partial extent all who come to Him through Jesus Christ His Son.

I serve God with a pure conscience and testify to all that I am complete in Him. If a person cannot find that purity of conscience and completeness in Christ alone, where and how in the world do they hope to find it someplace else?

Salvation is not merely just the saving of some intangible idea of a soul for some distant hard to comprehend, mysterious afterlife. It's for the here and now, too, with the hope of eternal life to come. If your eye offends you, pluck it out, and enter into life partially blinded. If your right hand offends you, cut it off and enter into life maimed.

But remember: just because you're partially blind and are maimed, doesn't mean you're not whole. Sin and the law of sin working through the carnal mind and the flesh thereof is the only thing preventing a child of God from the wholeness, soundness, and blamelessness Jesus can and does provide.

No one is separated from God on account of their mental illness. They are separated from God on account of their sin. But His arm is not shortened, dear brothers and sisters, nor His ear too heavy, that He cannot reach or hear, because He is not slack concerning His promises. Don't just talk about trusting Him. Actually do it. Take your concerns, your doubts, your worries, your fears, your weaknesses, your complaints, and all that is wrong with you, all these things that constitute a mental illness, and go boldly into the throne room of grace and find help in the time of need.

I know I did, and when I did, He saved me, healed me, freed me, and adopted me as His child. Now He walks with me and talks with me and tells me I'm His own. That life is worth the living just because He lives. That I can have a little talk with God to tell Him all about my problems because He knows and He cares. That He is my shelter in the time of storm. He's my haven of rest and I don't have to needlessly bear any sorrow, shame, or pain, because I have a friend in Jesus.

And guess what? He can be your friend, too. Just lean into the everlasting arms of the Father who loves you unconditionally with an everlasting love and let the false narrative the devil has fed you regarding how you think things are and have to be, get nailed to the cross, and walk away a new man or woman of God Most High.

While I do not doubt the demoniac at Gadarenes was demon possessed and I do not doubt your own testimony, stating that you were, "possessed by evil spirits for nearly ten years, and oppressed by them from the time I was a little kid," the point you are trying to make requires a huge leap in logic.

I do not doubt the Power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to truly make the demoniac whole. I do not doubt the Power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to make you whole.

I do not doubt the Power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to make any and everyone whole-- all who believes. Yet, not all who believe are made whole in an instant and some are not made whole at all. I am not speaking doubt, I am speaking reality.

Demon possession and mental illness are different. Just like demon possession and physical illness are different.

Yes, I believe that someone's physical illness can be a result of demonic oppression or possession.

Most people who are physically ill are not demon possessed.

Most people who are mentally ill are not demon possessed.

[votivesoul]

I affirm with Jesus the very things He said to Nicodemus:

"We speak what we know and testify what we have seen".

Perhaps the Master is trying to speak to us of earthly things, but we, like Nicodemus, are too ignorant or unwilling to believe them, so we can't possibly comprehend anything Jesus tells us regarding heavenly things? Maybe we, like Nicodemus, are not receiving Christ's witness?

Jesus called Nicodemus "the teacher of Israel". There is a lot of same thing today in the church. A lot of head knowledge, but not a lot of actual intimacy and relationship with the Father and Son.

What does it mean to be "born again", or "born from above", or "born anew"? Is it not a completely new and clean slate, a fresh start from all that has come before?

How does, for example, bipolar disorder coexist next to "joy unspeakable and full of glory"? How does depression live next door to "Jesus Christ in us, the hope of glory"? How does being suicidal buddy up to "being blameless and harmless, as sons of God"?

Can we be hard-pressed on every side? Of course! But not crushed. Perplexed? Sure, but not in despair. We can be persecuted while at the same time, not be forsaken. Can we even be struck down? Sure, but not destroyed.

Jesus was a man of sorrows, and the afflictions of the righteous are many. But that doesn't mean Jesus was mentally ill or that the righteous in Christ are either, just for being afflicted.

Look: when a person is mentally ill, the fact of the matter is this: their inner man and his perceptions are warped, damaged, and/or deranged, so let's just call it like it is!

The anorexic and bulimic thinks they are fat or overweight. The gorgeous but promiscuous thinks she's ugly and no man would ever truly love her unless she gives her body away. The narcissist thinks the image they've created is more real and valuable to them than the actual self. The sociopath has no empathetic response in his or her psyche. The alcoholic and drug addict prefers oblivion over sobriety. The depressed see no light or hope in the world for themselves, and contemplate death as a way out. The solipsist doesn't think anyone or anything is real but himself. The split personality disorder is a fractured mess of a human being. The schizophrenic cannot cope with reality, or tell the difference between what is real and what is imagined to be real. The cutter believes that causing themselves pain actually cures them of their pain. The porn addict thinks pornography is the real deal and engaging in it will satisfy and fulfill their needs when all it does is control and destroy them. And I could go on...

The point is this: every single situation above is anchored in one hard to swallow truth: each and every person engulfed by one of the above is living a lie. The anorexic and bulimic is not fat or overweight. The gorgeous woman does not have to be promiscuous and isn't ugly no matter what her parents said, and yes, a man can and will love her without taking her to the bedroom on the first date. The image the narcissist created is not real and is of no value at all. And all the way down the list it's the same.

But what did King David by the Holy Spirit declare about God? That God desires TRUTH in the inward parts. What are the inward parts? They are the core places of a person, their innermost being, all the way down to the spiritual makeup.

When truth is not in the inward parts, guess what occurs? Deception. Deception warps and maims a person's soul, and leads them into sin and devastation. So the mentally ill cannot see the world and the reality as it actually is, which is a very good definition of the word truth. God's reality is the only actual reality that exists. The rest is either demonic or man-made fabrications.

So when the Spirit of Truth comes to a person and draws them to Jesus, and reproves that person because of their sin, and leads them to believe, confess, repent, and obey the Gospel, for the very first time, that person is getting a glimpse of God's reality, His truth. More truth from God is still out there and available to them, but in that moment, when the Holy Spirit is first received, and God's truth first goes down deep into the inward parts of a person, all the warped, damaged, and deranged parts of that person's soul are exposed and placed on God's operating table.

But the key here is this: that person is the one who decides how far the Potter gets to go. If ever and whenever the clay says to the Potter, "Stop! Don't touch that part of me!", the Potter respects it and backs off. And as long as that person continues to reject God's work in that part of their life, even as they receive and welcome His work somewhere else, they won't get that specific part of them that is marred, fixed and made right. As such, no truth or the reality of how things actually are, from God's point of view, can come into that part of the person's life. As such, there will be no healing or deliverance for that person, in that part of their life. As such, if that part of a person's life is the root cause of their mental illness, they will never know victory and wholeness so long as God is kept at bay.

Therefore, the question is not how long does a person have to wait before God heals them of their psychological disorder, it's how long does God have to wait before that person invites Him in and allows Him to perform the work He knows they need in order to make them whole?

It's been shared more than once in this thread by more than one person, but what Jesus said about unforgiveness and torture in Matthew 18 has to be reiterated. Bitterness and spite toward another person, especially the one who hurt or abused you, is going to leave you tortured in soul and spirit. At some point, the pain of what was suffered way back when is gone, and the only thing left is the image of it in your mind, that you keep revisiting time and time again. But when, instead of looking at the image and remembering the pain, you look at Jesus dying on the cross, not just for you, but for your abuser, and you realize your abuser needs to be forgiven for their sins just as much as you do, and that to carry your own cross means you, like Jesus, need to plead the Father for that person's forgiveness, for they didn't know what they were doing when they ruined you, you begin to see that you, too, need to forgive them.

When you get to that point, the abuser who warped, damaged, and deranged you, and the effects of their warping, damaging, and deranging, no longer have any hold over you. You can be free from it all, and when you do, you will be healed.

It's really that simple.

[votivesoul]

Is not the person who is forgiven much the one who loves much?

Is not the one who thinks they were forgiven of little the one who therefore loves little?

If a person falls upon the Stone of Stumbling and Rock of Offense, will he or she not be broken? If that Stone of Stumbling and Rock of Offense falls on that person, will he or she not be ground into powder?

These are the truths that governor mental illness and the healing that can be received, from the Lord.

Many who come into the church just want Jesus to dip His finger into some water and place a drop of it on their tongue, so they can have the smallest relief from the flames of their torment, not realizing they can drink from the gushing, overflowing well of everlasting life in the Holy Spirit Jesus promised to "whosoever will".

So, when such a person gets that drop of Living Water from Jesus, they experience a mere moment of psychological relief, only to immediately re-experience their torment by the next moment.

This is the person who has no idea of how much they have been forgiven, and so, has no conceptual basis for loving Jesus with their whole heart. Sure, they may profess love, and confess that God is love, and all of that, but deep down, shame and condemnation makes them feel so unworthy of loving Someone so Awesome and Pure, and of being loved by that same Awesome and Pure Someone, that all they are willing to receive from the Lord is the most meager amount of blessing and restoration, simply because they don't believe they are deserving.

This person needs to be taught from the Holy Scriptures that these things are not true. They also need to be taught how to fast and pray in the Spirit, until, building themselves up in their most holy faith, they can receive everything the Lord of Glory has for them.

The person who throws themselves down on the Stone of Stumbling and Rock of Offense is like Simon Peter, who said "Where else can we go, you have the words of life", even though the words of life that Jesus had and has, are "hard sayings", that don't go down smooth and are not easily digested. To this person, it doesn't matter; Jesus is the end of everything for them. The end of every carnal desire, the end of every complaint or argument, the end of self and the flesh. This person will gladly break themselves no matter how much it hurts, because being maimed, even slain by the Lord can't cause this person to not trust Him.

Conversely, the person upon whom the Stone of Stumbling and Rock of Offense falls, is the stubborn, unwilling, proud, but deceived person who refuses to submit themselves to God's process, and so, after constantly rejecting what God can and wants to do for them, gets squashed and left for dead. They apostatize, become reprobate, and end up an enemy of the Cross of Christ.

I've met more than one person like this. My wife went to ABI in St. Paul, MN, and met a young woman there who always blamed her temper on her "latin" blood and so, justified herself every time she blew up on someone. After Bible College, this woman developed a cancerous tumor that swelled to the size of a watermelon somewhere in her mid-section. She had the tumor removed, and immediately after, apostatized because, although she had survived and been healed through medical science, since God didn't miraculously heal her, He was no longer good enough to love. She threw Jesus to the curb and is now a happy, little, God-hating, atheist. The Stone of Stumbling and Rock of Offense fell on her for her continued rebuffing of the Holy Spirit's conviction to get her temper in check, and so, one day, God sent her a trial, and she failed miserably, and blamed Him and not herself. Down came the Stone, and poof! She was ground into powder.

Is she now and/or was she then, mentally ill?

Yes, of course. Now, because she has deceived herself into believing that God isn't real and is not worthy of her love. That's as warped, damaged, and deranged as a person can get.

But she was also mentally ill back then, too, because, instead of humbling herself and admitting to her failures in the temper department, she, like Adam, blamed something else, and like Cain, tried to justify it by verbally slaying any brother or sister who crossed her. This too, is mental illness, simply because no one in their right mind, which is to say, being controlled by the Spirit of Christ, would act like this.

So there you have it. The carnal mind is diseased, sick, or, shall we say, ill. It is enmity against God, leads to condemnation through the sin of unbelief, and enslaves a person to unrighteousness. Sin, when it is finished, brings forth death. The mentally ill carnal mind will kill you, brothers and sisters, if you let it.

The desires of the flesh war against your soul, your psyche, which is to say, your psychology. If you are not prepared to nail to the tree every desire found in your flesh, you had better prepare for war. Such an embattled soul is bound to lose it's way, so long as the flesh and the lusts and affections thereof, live.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Demon possession and mental illness are different. Just like demon possession and physical illness are different.

Can you prove that, empirically?

Did anyone in 1st century Judea believe that? Did Jesus?

Is this not rather the so-called conventional wisdom medical science demands we believe?

Remember the woman, the daughter of Abraham, who was bent over, bound by Satan 18 years, that Jesus healed?

Guess what? Her condition is called hyperkyphosis of the thoracic spine and is due to degenerative disc disease caused by scoliosis and/or osteoarthritis that begins in one's youth due to poor posture, diet, and lack of exercise. She had a real physical issue, that can be diagnosed and treated medically, through a course of different muscle relaxing, anti-inflammatory, and pain relieving drugs coupled with physical therapy, chiropractic care, and perhaps surgery, or a brace.

But Jesus said it was Satan doing it to her.

Yes, I believe that someone's physical illness can be a result of demonic oppression or possession.

Most people who are physically ill are not demon possessed.

Most people who are mentally ill are not demon possessed.

I agree with this, to an extent, because we have to admit that the word "most" is highly subjective and can't be quantified in any way that's accurate.

What we can say, however, with much accuracy, is that the majority of people in the world who are mentally ill are not in Christ. Regardless of the actual number, it's still a fact. If they were to come to the Lord and be regenerated by the Holy Spirit, how many of them would remain mentally ill?

[houston]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Remember the woman, the daughter of Abraham, who was bent over, bound by Satan 18 years, that Jesus healed?

Guess what? Her condition is called hyperkyphosis of the thoracic spine and is due to degenerative disc disease caused by scoliosis and/or osteoarthritis that begins in one's youth due to poor posture, diet, and lack of exercise. She had a real physical issue, that can be diagnosed and treated medically, through a course of different muscle relaxing, anti-inflammatory, and pain relieving drugs coupled with physical therapy, chiropractic care, and perhaps surgery, or a brace.

But Jesus said it was Satan doing it to her.

POWERFUL! I've never noticed that.

What we can say, however, with much accuracy, is that the majority of people in the world who are mentally ill are not in Christ. Regardless of the actual number, it's still a fact. If they were to come to the Lord and be regenerated by the Holy Spirit, how many of them would remain mentally ill?

Not to change the topic, but what if those that become mentally ill some time AFTER regeneration?