Agenda Driven or Accepting of Diversity?

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have friends across the spectrum that I enjoy visiting with. Aggression is in the aggressor con or lib. Now who I preach is a different story I am very particular who I allow in the pulpit of the church I pastor. I do NOT target a lib when they come in the door however if I felt to preach on a subject that they would not agree with I do not censure myself. I have no desire to win the smart aleck of the year award thus being ugly has no virtue in it. However I am unwavering in my stands but I hope in charity.

Brother Epley, you are the 'master' at believing strongly on various subjects while keeping a great spirit about it. You, dear sir, excel in that area and I think 99% of AFF loves you for that very reason.

I have great respect you because of your firm, unwavering stance and kind, honest spirit.

Originally Posted by Sherri

Steadfast, I'm glad you brought this up, even though it could have easily turned into an ugly shout-fest. I think, having been on both sides of the fence at some point in my life, that both sides are misunderstood. When I was very young, and had just gotten the Holy Ghost, I tended to pick up EVERYTHING that anyone preached, no matter how far out and take it upon myself as a new "standard". I thought all men of God were really men of God and trusted them explicitly. I nearly drove my family and myself crazy! I would not even walk in a room where a TV was playing, and we had five in our house!

After having worked through all that and learning to understand the Word for myself, I now have deep convictions that are from God alone and I will not change them for anyone. Now to you, I may seem like a liberal, but to most of our friends, I am a die-hard conservative. So the titles are confusing once you get outside of the OP realm.

It saddens me that I can call you brother, but you probably would not call me sister. It saddens me that my real brother, who is one of the best speakers in the world, probably could never preach in our church. (I don't blame him for that; it's just the law of the land). It saddens me that all of us cannot fellowship over the 90% that we do agree on and forget the 10% that we disagree on. It saddens me that some people on here obviously do not think that I'm saved when I know the relationship I have with Jesus.

It is discouraging to post threads on here about people getting the Holy Ghost or getting healed and only a certain few people will respond, because the more conservative ones wouldn't want to acknowledge that it could actually happen or be the real thing. Just being honest here.....

That's why I love Sis. Alvear. She can absolutely see Jesus in everyone. She has come to visit me and we are as far apart in beliefs as anyone on here, but we love each other dearly. To me, she reaches out to every end of the spectrum and knows that God is working in all of us.

Hope this doesn't sound like "woe is me". I do love and appreciate everyone on here and highly respect your beliefs. I hope that I can prove myself to you as well.

Man... these posts are just incredible.

For the record, Sherri, if they only met you (like I have) they would see you in a whole different light. I loved your spirit from the minute I met you... and NOT because your brother is my best friend.

Hey, there were a bunch of 'big wigs' there that night but I was much more comfortable laughing with you than I would have been listening to them!

Originally Posted by StMark

We had a pastor out here that preached at a conference and he said that" it all started with POWERPOINT" and that was the start of the downward trend of the UPC.

Are you serious?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Perhaps it's just the 'view' from my perspective but, in my opinion, the 'libs' are somewhat more 'agenda' driven. So many times they make your spiritual disciplines, your organization or your convictions a target to make light of.

Again, it may just be from my perspective, but I find the 'libs' much less 'laid back' when pushing their differences. Some have an attitude that says, "I'm living less and going to berate you for not joining me." You are right, though, that 'cons' are pretty much 'black or white' oriented and, granted, some do have a beligerant attitude that stinks.

I would say that, whether 'con' or 'lib', nobody wants others to make light of things precious to their soul.

I think the answer for this will always be the opposite of what you are because of your own thought processes.

I feel that liberals are more tolerant because they usually have "been there" and understand the mindset.

I feel that conservatives are more intolerant because they feel you are lost for not being like them. The intolerance could be out of concern for your soul or just plain upset that you have left the mother ship.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Are you serious?

Yes - Coon confirmed it too see post #49
The pastor that preached this pulled out a few years ago

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I think the answer for this will always be the opposite of what you are because of your own thought processes.

I feel that liberals are more tolerant because they usually have "been there" and understand the mindset.

I feel that conservatives are more intolerant because they feel you are lost for not being like them. The intolerance could be out of concern for your soul or just plain upset that you have left the mother ship.

I always get tickled when I hear that term 'the mothership'. It's been my observation that most of the successful Churches / ministries seldom ever mention the UPC or make an issue out of being a part of it.

I think that's one of the things that I like about the UPC: It is, for the most part, an unintrusive element. If you promote it - fine. If you don't - fine.

Again, most people I know who are prominent in our organization are pretty much 'non-organizational' as it pertains to Church structure. I'm not sure many of them would work well in an organizational 'mothership' that made a lot of demands on the Church structure locally.

Allowing the Church to be autonomous is probably the only thing that makes the UPC work like it does... and it has worked very well.

More to your point, Renda, I think there are some that do get weirded out when someone leaves the UPC for any reason. Fortunately, I have always had friends both in and out of the UPC so my view is much broader than thinking the UPC alone is the 'bride'.

Originally Posted by StMark

Yes - Coon confirmed it too see post #49
The pastor that preached this pulled out a few years ago

Using that typology.... I preach from a laptop computer; that may well make me the Antichrist!

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Using that typology.... I preach from a laptop computer; that may well make me the Antichrist!

Everybody is somebody's liberal

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by StMark

Everybody is somebody's liberal

That's a very good point!

And to the same point, everybody is somebody's conservative too!

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Using that typology.... I preach from a laptop computer; that may well make me the Antichrist!

Oh sweet Jesus, how wayward is this man?

Could be problematic if the battery dies!