Anonymous Calls For Reform In The UPCI

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

NOT

LOL! Daniel! Go look at the link again. It says: Author: Daniel!!

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Which is great. But I was looking at the broader discussion as well. How many men on the General Board would feel free to come into the winter meetings with a beard? If word got out that any of them even allowed such a thing in their churches they would be castigated for not having a "clean church" and politically isolated.

It may not be written, but the social stigmas don't even allow for a discussion of these issues at anything like the GB level. And so, I would ask: why?

Agreed, Pel.

As I was instructed by a prominent minister within the UPC, "The successful young minister will be the one who learns the 'unwritten' rules."

[smurfette]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Agreed, Pel.

As I was instructed by a prominent minister within the UPC, "The successful young minister will be the one who learns the 'unwritten' rules."

There you go! That's it in a nutshell!

[theoldpaths]

I wonder how many who are critical of leadership in here have ever been called of God and rec'd the annointing of God to Pastor a church knowing full well that they are going to have to give an account to God for their church?

I'm not talking about being able to preach or having graduated from a bible college, but actually being called of the Almighty above and having his special annointing come upon you, not just to preach, but to Pastor.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

I wonder how many who are critical of leadership in here have ever been called of God and rec'd the annointing of God to Pastor a church knowing full well that they are going to have to give an account to God for their church?

I'm not talking about being able to preach or having graduated from a bible college, but actually being called of the Almighty above and having his special annointing come upon you, not just to preach, but to Pastor.

I firmly believe that people are going to have less of a problem with a man who has clearly been put there by God as a pastor. Oh, some will but it is far less likely to turn into an abusive situation. In fact, many of these men are probably the ones being railed against as being "too liberal" and "loosening standards".
After all, if a God Himself put a man into a church building and he stopped making pants on women a heaven or hell issue would YOU not speak up?

[TRFrance]

I'm a little wary of people who start threads around here and that's the only post they have on this forum.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

I wonder how many who are critical of leadership in here have ever been called of God and rec'd the annointing of God to Pastor a church knowing full well that they are going to have to give an account to God for their church?

I'm not talking about being able to preach or having graduated from a bible college, but actually being called of the Almighty above and having his special annointing come upon you, not just to preach, but to Pastor.

I have been prophesied over and had hands laid on me by men whose names you would recognize if you don't know them yourself. It was roundly prophesied that I would pastor and that all sorts of good things would come from that.

One popular evangelist once laid hands on me and prophesied concerning my ministry causing another man to go out and spend $25,000 at the drop of a hat to advertise - me. I literally begged the man not to spend the money but he was just stunned that I wasn't enthusiatic about going along. I did manage to win one soul from that. One, and though I think she was worth more than just that amount of money - still, I couldn't help but wonder what it would have been like if I had had any say in the matter.

Still, your question: one answer is "me." And there are several others as well, though you should read the "criticisms of leadership" more carefully. I feel that my criticisms would actually make the lives of those in leadership a bit easier in the long run, but many would have to struggle through a bumpy spot of having to admit that many of our policies have been just plain wrong.

I personally fear and tremble when I tell anyone that there are things that they "must do" to be saved. I try very hard to keep it all right in the Book. I am amazed by those who add to the Word of God and try to embellish our salvation with a bunch of cultural add-ons.

If a pastor is truly concered about "giving an account" then he had seriously be concerned about following the Bible and not adding to or taking away from it. Revelation 22:18

What is lacking in the Word of God that causes you to think a "good pastor" would need to add to it?

[lookupsocial]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I'm a little wary of people who start threads around here and that's the only post they have on this forum.

I can understand your cause for concern. I promise though, I don't bite.

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I have been prophesied over and had hands laid on me by men whose names you would recognize if you don't know them yourself. It was roundly prophesied that I would pastor and that all sorts of good things would come from that.

One popular evangelist once laid hands on me and prophesied concerning my ministry causing another man to go out and spend $25,000 at the drop of a hat to advertise - me. I literally begged the man not to spend the money but he was just stunned that I wasn't enthusiatic about going along. I did manage to win one soul from that. One, and though I think she was worth more than just that amount of money - still, I couldn't help but wonder what it would have been like if I had had any say in the matter.

Still, your question: one answer is "me." And there are several others as well, though you should read the "criticisms of leadership" more carefully. I feel that my criticisms would actually make the lives of those in leadership a bit easier in the long run, but many would have to struggle through a bumpy spot of having to admit that many of our policies have been just plain wrong.

I personally fear and tremble when I tell anyone that there are things that they "must do" to be saved. I try very hard to keep it all right in the Book. I am amazed by those who add to the Word of God and try to embellish our salvation with a bunch of cultural add-ons.

If a pastor is truly concered about "giving an account" then he had seriously be concerned about following the Bible and not adding to or taking away from it. Revelation 22:18

What is lacking in the Word of God that causes you to think a "good pastor" would need to add to it?

Jesus knew that issues would come up after He was gone up from the world and told those who would be leaders of his church the following...

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

And we have a very practical example in Acts of an issue that came up that required Paul and Barnabbas to meet with the elders and Apostles at Jerusalem. Men discussed, made decisions, and put them in writing and it was communicated to all the gentle churches to be obeyed. What was to be obeyed? The decisions made by men. Now did God somehow indicate that He was pleased with the decisions made by men? Yes he did...

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well, Fare ye well.

Notice that more decisions were made than the one decision that they decided they needed to meet for - circumcision of the gentiles.

Its almost like some in here would have told Paul, Barnabbas, the elders, and the rest of the Apostles not to put something that was decided by men in writing to be communicated to all of the gentile churches to be obeyed; that if they did so they would be making a big mistake.

Perhaps they remembered the words of Jesus in Matt 18 and knew better than some of us.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Do you think the above scripture covers the decisions that men made above that were put in writing and communicated to all of the gentiles churches to obey?

I believe so.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I have been prophesied over and had hands laid on me by men whose names you would recognize if you don't know them yourself. It was roundly prophesied that I would pastor and that all sorts of good things would come from that.

One popular evangelist once laid hands on me and prophesied concerning my ministry causing another man to go out and spend $25,000 at the drop of a hat to advertise - me. I literally begged the man not to spend the money but he was just stunned that I wasn't enthusiatic about going along. I did manage to win one soul from that. One, and though I think she was worth more than just that amount of money - still, I couldn't help but wonder what it would have been like if I had had any say in the matter.

Still, your question: one answer is "me." And there are several others as well, though you should read the "criticisms of leadership" more carefully. I feel that my criticisms would actually make the lives of those in leadership a bit easier in the long run, but many would have to struggle through a bumpy spot of having to admit that many of our policies have been just plain wrong.

I personally fear and tremble when I tell anyone that there are things that they "must do" to be saved. I try very hard to keep it all right in the Book. I am amazed by those who add to the Word of God and try to embellish our salvation with a bunch of cultural add-ons.

If a pastor is truly concered about "giving an account" then he had seriously be concerned about following the Bible and not adding to or taking away from it. Revelation 22:18

What is lacking in the Word of God that causes you to think a "good pastor" would need to add to it?

I think I have another favorite poster on this thing. Good job Pel! I know what you are talking about.

I have had the frequency of experience but with a lesser magnitude. I have been prophesied over time and again and at one point in time thought I was called into the ministry. I took a step back thanks to one of my best friends and the youth leader at the time who told me that God may not be calling me to the ministry but to a deeper walk and relationship with him.

I will never forget it.

I wonder when these great men with clogged arteries, damaged hearts and nervous systems will finally get to heaven and hear from God almighty, "Brother you are here too early because you didn't trust the saints."