FEAR FACTOR: Pentecostal/Apostolic Style

[ManOfWord]

What "revelation" did Paul receive in Ac. 10 and what did he get in return for it?

Paul was criticized and castigated from the Jews for his "revelations." Looking back, we see that it WAS from God. Martin Luther received a "revelation." What did he get in return for it? Looking back, we know that it WAS God.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Took me a while to find this, I think this quote by the esteemed Wolfgang Simson will contribute to your thoughts here,

Six easy steps to convert a blessing into a curse

Let us slip into the devils shoes for a few seconds: is ”copyist” not a perfect trap? For most churches, everything starts so wonderful.

1. Someone experiences God’s blessing because he has been obedient to His word and spirit.

2. Someone else tells the story and it appears as a testimony;

3. The third one creates a model out of this experience,

4. Which then is copied and cloned by a fourth one?

5. A fifth one finally suggests:”lets create an institution around this new model!”, and goes on to start franchises all over the world; and the

6. Sixth one forms all this into a new law, which judges everyone who chooses to do things different.

I call this”the six sure and easy steps to transform a blessing into a curse.”

Bullseye, Keith!!!

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Took me a while to find this, I think this quote by the esteemed Wolfgang Simson will contribute to your thoughts here,

Six easy steps to convert a blessing into a curse

Let us slip into the devils shoes for a few seconds: is ”copyist” not a perfect trap? For most churches, everything starts so wonderful.

1. Someone experiences God’s blessing because he has been obedient to His word and spirit.

2. Someone else tells the story and it appears as a testimony;

3. The third one creates a model out of this experience,

4. Which then is copied and cloned by a fourth one?

5. A fifth one finally suggests:”lets create an institution around this new model!”, and goes on to start franchises all over the world; and the

6. Sixth one forms all this into a new law, which judges everyone who chooses to do things different.

I call this”the six sure and easy steps to transform a blessing into a curse.”

and this usally takes an organization about 50 years.... how old are we?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

and this usally takes an organization about 50 years.... how old are we?

Wayyyyyyyy too old to be still debating this.

[EA]

Brother Adams,

I really appreciate you, and consider you a friend, but have you ever considered that some "revelations" aren't meant for everyone?

[EA]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Brother Adams,

I really appreciate you, and consider you a friend, but have you ever considered that some "revelations" aren't meant for everyone?

The biggest reason that we Oneness Pentecostals have so many extrabiblical traditions is that men create church dogma out of a specific word from God, meant solely for them.

I really believe that God has told some men to shave, to abstain from sporting events, to stay away from the filth on television... and so on. God still speaks to men and women today. The trouble comes from our misinterpretations of His specific Word to our hearts.

We err when we take what God intends for individuals and mandate corporate change within the body of Christ.

Brother Adams, I see you doing the same thing, but in a different direction. Not everyone is meant to "follow the cloud" in the same direction you did. God has given some individuals, and groups within the UPCI, a set of convictions that you do not share, and often mock.

Have you ever considered that their convictions may stem from a specific Word of the Lord in their lives? Perhaps the cloud is leading them in a different way? Perhaps God is using their set of principles as a witness to others?

At any rate, I do not think what you are attempting to do here is any different from the very tactics you ascribe to conservatives.

You are maligning anyone who doesn't "follow the cloud" out of the UPC and/or conservatism as you did.

Please understand, my intent is not to offend you. Only to point out the obvious inconsistency.

[EA]

Further, every new revelation needs to be help up to the light of God's Word.

I Thessalonians 5:20-22

We need to "prove all things."

Spiritual, and scriptural, discernment shouldn't be tossed out the window in order to receive shiny new revelations.

[bishoph]

I must be a fear monger then......................IMO the revelation/illumination/discovery/revival/passion, etc. of the Mighty God in Christ/Oneness of God, Baptism in Jesus Name, Holy Ghost Baptism were the "final" pieces to the "faith once delivered to the saints." While I study the Word each day for more understanding and to bring my own walk with God in line to his Word, I do not believe there are any other "revelations" forthcoming.

Are there areas of application that we have fallen short in? Absolutely! Are there some things we have willfully/ignorantly omitted, while overstating others? Absolutely! Jesus addressed this same principle with the scribes and Pharisees when he told them "these ought you to have done and not left the other undone." (Matt. 23:23 KJV)

The notion that there are "revelations" (according to our present day usage of this term "a revelation/discovery of truth/doctrine not currently understood, practiced, or taught") that may be yet "revealed," is extremely dangerous IMHO. I would ask as did STMark, what revelation have we not received? What revelation will bring about a more complete salvation?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Brother Adams,

I really appreciate you, and consider you a friend, but have you ever considered that some "revelations" aren't meant for everyone?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

The biggest reason that we Oneness Pentecostals have so many extrabiblical traditions is that men create church dogma out of a specific word from God, meant solely for them.

I really believe that God has told some men to shave, to abstain from sporting events, to stay away from the filth on television... and so on. God still speaks to men and women today. The trouble comes from our misinterpretations of His specific Word to our hearts.

We err when we take what God intends for individuals and mandate corporate change within the body of Christ.

Brother Adams, I see you doing the same thing, but in a different direction. Not everyone is meant to "follow the cloud" in the same direction you did. God has given some individuals, and groups within the UPCI, a set of convictions that you do not share, and often mock.

Ed, I have NEVER EVER advocated that everyone "follow the cloud" the same way I have. Not here, not anywhere. I have only come down on someone's "convictions" when they require those convictions of everyone or link them to salvation I completely respect someone's convictions when they hold those personal convictions personally. I've never expected anyone to follow MY convictions. That is what makes them personal convictions.

Have you ever considered that their convictions may stem from a specific Word of the Lord in their lives? Perhaps the cloud is leading them in a different way? Perhaps God is using their set of principles as a witness to others?

Yes, and I have no problem with that.

At any rate, I do not think what you are attempting to do here is any different from the very tactics you ascribe to conservatives.

I have not "attempted" to do anything here. I simply posted an observation from history for discussion. That discussion has continued pretty much without me.

You are maligning anyone who doesn't "follow the cloud" out of the UPC and/or conservatism as you did.

Please understand, my intent is not to offend you. Only to point out the obvious inconsistency.

I challenge you to show me in ANY of my posts here which point to what you are accusing me of. I have no where maligned anyone who has not "followed the cloud" as I have. I have NEVER EVER counseled anyone to leave the UPC, including YOU......not here not EVER....no one......no how! Sorry, that dog won't hunt, Ed!

[Hoovie]

The final pieces... uh no.