The "Claim to the Name"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We have authority through His name.

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. Luke 10:17

I think that was what I said. But it doesn't mean you have to keep chanting "in Jesus name, In Jesus name, In Jesus NAME!"

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

What is your definition of "religion"? There is such a thing as pure religion.

I agree; To visit the fatherless and the widow in their affliction.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I guess you haven't read about the Middle East lately. This "Hotbed" of the World always elevates World tension when they start slinging bombs at one another because they are fighting over "My Dad".

How did we get from "EVery war" to "I guess you haven't read about the middle east lately"? Is Every war the middle east lately?

Let's not forget the Old Testament. Blood was everywhere in the name of God.

Not necessarily, religious undertone. There are neighboring people that want your land and your goods, not because of religion but greed and necessity. That Israel relied on their God does not make the war a religious war

Look at 911. Who was supposably responsible for for that? How about Pearl Harbor? Religion was the very fiber of the kamikaze, and the Emperor was God. Even Hilter had the backing of the Catholic Church.

But did they bomb us due to religious ideology or do they use religion as an excuse? Iran, many years ago, took over our embassy. It seemed very religious. But the REASON was political. We supported the Shah and they hated us for that.

England tromped from one Country to the next, binding by battle with the Mother Church in her craw.

England was an imperialist nation. They were driven by greed, not religion

Today, Ireland has blood in her streets over Religion.

No, it's not religion that fuels strike. It's a long history of people, land and government. The fact that the people themselves are different religious sects is not what drives the strife

Pakistan and India have nukes pointed at each other.

Muslims kill other Muslims in Pakistan, but the differences between Pakistan and India are political and over land. India could be a Muslim nation and there would still be strife

Iran is ready to send Israel into oblivion.

That could be religious

The Turks and the Kurds.

Turks and Kurds are like America and Mexico, except we have friendly relations with Mexico. The problem is the Kurds want their own land and they illegally go into Turk and try to do that. Religion has nothing to do with the Turk vs Kurd problem. Simply pointing to two groups that have different religions does not mean religion is what undertones the strife

Muslims and Christians.

Where? Simply stating Muslim and Christians does not prove any war...we are talking about wars, is a religiously undertoned war

Africa is hallowed by gorrilla and tribal warfare and corruption, fueled by Religion.

Not really it's more about greed and prejudices over tribal and cultural affairs.

In Sudan there is strife and hatred of Muslims for Christians, but that does not mean everywhere and every time it's about religion

Every corner of our Globe is covered with graves because of Religion, and most Wars are started by Countries who claim, "God is with us".

No, it's because of greed. Greed for power and money. That a war is started by countries that believe "God is with us" does not mean a war is started BECAUSE Of religion

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How did we get from "EVery war" to "I guess you haven't read about the middle east lately"? Is Every war the middle east lately?

Not necessarily, religious undertone. There are neighboring people that want your land and your goods, not because of religion but greed and necessity. That Israel relied on their God does not make the war a religious war

But did they bomb us due to religious ideology or do they use religion as an excuse? Iran, many years ago, took over our embassy. It seemed very religious. But the REASON was political. We supported the Shah and they hated us for that.

England was an imperialist nation. They were driven by greed, not religion

No, it's not religion that fuels strike. It's a long history of people, land and government. The fact that the people themselves are different religious sects is not what drives the strife

Muslims kill other Muslims in Pakistan, but the differences between Pakistan and India are political and over land. India could be a Muslim nation and there would still be strife

That could be religious

Turks and Kurds are like America and Mexico, except we have friendly relations with Mexico. The problem is the Kurds want their own land and they illegally go into Turk and try to do that. Religion has nothing to do with the Turk vs Kurd problem. Simply pointing to two groups that have different religions does not mean religion is what undertones the strife

Where? Simply stating Muslim and Christians does not prove any war...we are talking about wars, is a religiously undertoned war

Not really it's more about greed and prejudices over tribal and cultural affairs.

In Sudan there is strife and hatred of Muslims for Christians, but that does not mean everywhere and every time it's about religion

No, it's because of greed. Greed for power and money. That a war is started by countries that believe "God is with us" does not mean a war is started BECAUSE Of religion

To be honest, my theory, and this is mine, all Wars stem from Faith, whether your an Athiest or a Christian.

All societies hold on to Faith Ideals (Morals), and when the line is crossed the fighting begins. Go back in time, and Wars and Battle was with the gods or a group idea that we (a people) will die for a cause or moral, right or wrong (depending on interpretation).

You're are right, money and greed do instigate and manipulate the heart, but I think you and I can both agree, God is in the mix every time (Man, God, god, Idol, Money, Religion, Politics, these are all worshipped). Just like America, "In God We Trust", and "God Bless America", are phrases we always use as the body bags roll in. We kiss our crosses and quote Scripture as the next bullet flies.

All cultures have their "War Drum".

There are many "ifs" in your questions. Like 911. You answer the question, Prax; Who bombed us, and why? They call us the Great Satan. If that's not a Religious undertone, I don't know what is.

These posts are only so long, so I try to be brief. But, come on, the massacres of Christians by Muslims and other Religions in other Countries is well known and documented. This isn't even an arguement. India, Iran, Iraq, Africa, Egypt, Sudan, Indonesia, and the list goes on, these Countries have murdered millions of Christians because of Faith problems.

Even Hitler murdering over 11 million in concentration camps. It was his ideal. His moral concept of Faith that the World would be a better place without these people.

It's only been until recently that Global accountability has stopped some of this autrocity. But even now, we cover our Wars with our Morals and justify the killing by our Banner or Flag.

[Orthodoxy]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I remember a few years ago when I was at a very large minister's conference in the southern region in January and the church's choir began singing "Holy, Holy, Holy.......Lord God Almighty...." ...and the crowd was very quiet.....waiting......wondering........a little nervous..........but, when the choir got to the part of the song that says "God in three persons, blessed trinity"......the choir sang "God in Christ Jesus, blessed Deity".......once they sang that line, the tension broke and everyone began to worship!

Wow... Was this at a UPC conference? I personally have never heard "Holy, Holy, Holy" sang at a UPC event or church service, even with the lyrics changed.

[Praxeas]

No I think that was my point, God is not in the mix every time. If a man robs your house of money he did it for greed, that he claims to be a Christian does not mean "God was in the mix". He did not rob your house because he is a Christian or believes in a God. He robbed for greed. Until you can show each and every time Religion was the reason, it's just not true.

And after the fact of a war starting, someone invoking their god to help them is still not evidence the war was started due to religion

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

There are many "ifs" in your questions. Like 911. You answer the question, Prax; Who bombed us, and why? They call us the Great Satan. If that's not a Religious undertone, I don't know what is.

This is one instance out of several I covered. The assertion was that ALL wars had that religious undertone. I say not all do.

9/11 was a terrorist act, done by an isolated group, not a religion. They used religion though as their reasoning. However if you go back, like to the Iran thing and the Shah their issue was not religion but American meddling in Middle Eastern affairs. It was not religion. IF you took the Religion out, they would still hate us. They would still want to bomb us.

These posts are only so long, so I try to be brief. But, come on, the massacres of Christians by Muslims and other Religions in other Countries is well known and documented.

We are talking about WARS. However did you bother to note that I said what happens in Sudan is over religion? I guess now. But the point is WARS...not inter country persecutions, is NOT ALWAYS undertoned by religion.

This isn't even an arguement. India, Iran, Iraq, Africa, Egypt, Sudan, Indonesia, and the list goes on, these Countries have murdered millions of Christians because of Faith problems.

That is called PERSECUTION, not WAR

Even Hitler murdering over 11 million in concentration camps. It was his ideal. His moral concept of Faith that the World would be a better place without these people.

Hitler had a social vision. He wanted a pure Aryan race. Religion didn't matter. That is not religion. That is sociology. That is politics. That is racism, but that is not necessarily religion.

It's only been until recently that Global accountability has stopped some of this autrocity. But even now, we cover our Wars with our Morals and justify the killing by our Banner or Flag.

Flag is not religion. Morality is not religion.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No I think that was my point, God is not in the mix every time. If a man robs your house of money he did it for greed, that he claims to be a Christian does not mean "God was in the mix". He did not rob your house because he is a Christian or believes in a God. He robbed for greed. Until you can show each and every time Religion was the reason, it's just not true.

And after the fact of a war starting, someone invoking their god to help them is still not evidence the war was started due to religion

Money may be his god...........

Robbing my house is not War.........

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is one instance out of several I covered. The assertion was that ALL wars had that religious undertone. I say not all do.

9/11 was a terrorist act, done by an isolated group, not a religion. They used religion though as their reasoning. However if you go back, like to the Iran thing and the Shah their issue was not religion but American meddling in Middle Eastern affairs. It was not religion. IF you took the Religion out, they would still hate us. They would still want to bomb us.

We are talking about WARS. However did you bother to note that I said what happens in Sudan is over religion? I guess now. But the point is WARS...not inter country persecutions, is NOT ALWAYS undertoned by religion.

That is called PERSECUTION, not WAR


Hitler had a social vision. He wanted a pure Aryan race. Religion didn't matter. That is not religion. That is sociology. That is politics. That is racism, but that is not necessarily religion.

Flag is not religion. Morality is not religion.

Oh, brother................

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Money may be his god...........

Robbing my house is not War.........

That's not a religion and saying "may be" is not proof or evidence.

Robbing your house was not meant to be war. It was meant to be grammatical example that just because someone has religion that religion does not necessarily have anything to do with the actions of a person or a nation