What is Adultery?

[notofworks]

I have an extremely difficult time proclaiming that a man cannot be reinstated to the ministry if he has committed adultery. In so doing, we have placed a limit on grace.

What's worse...adultery or a minister sitting by a fire with people who could endanger his well-being and cursing Christ, denying any association with him, and using vulgarities to speak it?

Peter did this, while nails were being driven through Christ's hands, yet he preached the featured sermon at the upcoming conference just 7 weeks later....the Day of Pentecost, the sermon that birthed the church, which is the Bride of Christ.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I have an extremely difficult time proclaiming that a man cannot be reinstated to the ministry if he has committed adultery. In so doing, we have placed a limit on grace.

What's worse...adultery or a minister sitting by a fire with people who could endanger his well-being and cursing Christ, denying any association with him, and using vulgarities to speak it?

Peter did this, while nails were being driven through Christ's hands, yet he preached the featured sermon at the upcoming conference just 7 weeks later....the Day of Pentecost, the sermon that birthed the church, which is the Bride of Christ.

BeenThinkin

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

BeenThinkin

You know what, BeenThinkin, it doesn't seem so much to be the unchurched that don't want a so-called "fallen" minister back in the pulpit, it's the church folks, from what I've seen.

I wonder how much we hurt ourselves with our "target-audience" (the unchurched) when we practice abolishment of "the fallen"? Do they see grace or judgement? Do they see us shooting our wounded? Do they wonder what would ever happen to them if they became a Christian and failed?

It has been said, "The Christian Army is the only Army that shoots their wounded." Sometimes, it seems true.

I recently heard of an old friend who has "fallen". I called him and said, "Get here as fast as you can. I want you back on the stage doing what you do best. The Body of Christ needs what you have to offer. I want you to tangibly feel that God has not given up on you and isn't finished with you."

For all have sinned (past tense) and come short (present tense) of God's glory.

[MissBrattified]

I believe that ANY repentant sinner will be met by a merciful God. No doubt about that. When we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us.

The questions posed on this thread are:

1. Is he still living in adultery by remaining married to the new girl, and
2. Should he be restored to ministry? (Understanding that being restored to a relationship with God is not the same as being restored to a position of leadership.)

My opinions:

...once you're married, you're married. It doesn't matter if it's for the 1st time or the 6th time. The marriage ceremony legalizes the relationship, IMO. I don't believe in the idea that people who are married a 2nd (or subsequent) time are supposed to leave that spouse in order to be in good standing with God. I don't know of any law or precedent in scripture that supports that. Did Jesus tell the woman at the well to return to her first husband? He wouldn't have, because OT law forbade returning to a previous spouse after divorce and remarriage.

...ministerial qualifications are there for a reason. It isn't just punishment for those who aren't perfect (and no one really is). They're practical, and have to do with reflecting the church of God positively as well as keeping the influence of a bishop or elder intact.

All Christians have a calling to proclaim the Gospel. They don't all have a calling to be a deacon or bishop. Why the aspirations for these positions? I'm not even sure they ARE callings. They're positions the church should fill with respected elders who fit the requirements. Furthermore, whether a person can or should be restored should be up to the local church, which hopefully knows them best. That's why it's so important to be accountable to a peer or elder when something like this happens. They can keep things in check, and make sure restoration is a process that occurs due to repentance rather than selfish motives of personal gain.

I do not have a problem with anyone preaching or teaching, as long as the local church has approved. That power doesn't belong with anyone else. The local assembly should be able to decide who should or should not lead them, preach to them, teach them, etc. Obviously no one should [try to] force themselves into the local pulpit. That's obnoxious.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by notofworks

You know what, BeenThinkin, it doesn't seem so much to be the unchurched that don't want a so-called "fallen" minister back in the pulpit, it's the church folks, from what I've seen.

I wonder how much we hurt ourselves with our "target-audience" (the unchurched) when we practice abolishment of "the fallen"? Do they see grace or judgement? Do they see us shooting our wounded? Do they wonder what would ever happen to them if they became a Christian and failed?

It has been said, "The Christian Army is the only Army that shoots their wounded." Sometimes, it seems true.

I recently heard of an old friend who has "fallen". I called him and said, "Get here as fast as you can. I want you back on the stage doing what you do best. The Body of Christ needs what you have to offer. I want you to tangibly feel that God has not given up on you and isn't finished with you."

For all have sinned (past tense) and come short (present tense) of God's glory.

I discovered a long time ago that I'm not God. And until I come to the level that I know all things I won't try to act like God.

Some 27 years ago I put a man back in the pulpit; a man that had fallen into sin on the missionary field. Many others would not use him. He manifested a spirit of humility and was not trying to hide his failure. The only thing I asked of him was to "shut up talking about his failure," as if that would convince everyone he was forgiven and just go on and do what ever God had for him to do.

Today he pastors a church, preachers on the missions field and speaks for many church conferences. If I told you his name you might know him. But, who he is doesn't matter.

The work of God will prosper much more if preachers and saints will quit trying to play God. We can't be forgiven if we are not willing to forgive. I knew a preacher in Louisiana who was death on divorce and remarriage until his wife left him!

The prodigal son was welcomed back home before his father could question him about what he had done, whether he had repented, and had he really repented or just got hungry.

Oh well.... 'nough said!

Been Thinkin

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

I discovered a long time ago that I'm not God. And until I come to the level that I know all things I won't try to act like God.

Some 27 years ago I put a man back in the pulpit; a man that had fallen into sin on the missionary field.

You do realize the irony of this statement, right?

The local church and local leadership should have most of the say in whether a person is restored to leadership. (I say "most", because hopefully all parties are consulting God in the process.)

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

I discovered a long time ago that I'm not God. And until I come to the level that I know all things I won't try to act like God.

Some 27 years ago I put a man back in the pulpit; a man that had fallen into sin on the missionary field. Many others would not use him. He manifested a spirit of humility and was not trying to hide his failure. The only thing I asked of him was to "shut up talking about his failure," as if that would convince everyone he was forgiven and just go on and do what ever God had for him to do.

Today he pastors a church, preachers on the missions field and speaks for many church conferences. If I told you his name you might know him. But, who he is doesn't matter.

The work of God will prosper much more if preachers and saints will quit trying to play God. We can't be forgiven if we are not willing to forgive. I knew a preacher in Louisiana who was death on divorce and remarriage until his wife left him!

The prodigal son was welcomed back home before his father could question him about what he had done, whether he had repented, and had he really repented or just got hungry.

Oh well.... 'nough said!

Been Thinkin

...and in so doing, you put grace into tangible clothes that could be touched and experienced. God bless you!!!

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by notofworks

You know what, BeenThinkin, it doesn't seem so much to be the unchurched that don't want a so-called "fallen" minister back in the pulpit, it's the church folks, from what I've seen.

I wonder how much we hurt ourselves with our "target-audience" (the unchurched) when we practice abolishment of "the fallen"? Do they see grace or judgement? Do they see us shooting our wounded? Do they wonder what would ever happen to them if they became a Christian and failed?

It has been said, "The Christian Army is the only Army that shoots their wounded." Sometimes, it seems true.

I recently heard of an old friend who has "fallen". I called him and said, "Get here as fast as you can. I want you back on the stage doing what you do best. The Body of Christ needs what you have to offer. I want you to tangibly feel that God has not given up on you and isn't finished with you."

For all have sinned (past tense) and come short (present tense) of God's glory.

But you'll have to admit, if a man has an affair, leaves his wife - and probably children - for the other woman..... leaving pain and devastation in his wake..... marries the other woman, and then wants to just walk back in and resume his former role as a leader of the congregation........ that's a bit hard to swallow.

It's not a matter of being restored to God, or even being forgiven by your fellow Christians.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

But you'll have to admit, if a man has an affair, leaves his wife - and probably children - for the other woman..... leaving pain and devastation in his wake..... marries the other woman, and then wants to just walk back in and resume his former role as a leader of the congregation........ that's a bit hard to swallow.

It's not a matter of being restored to God, or even being forgiven by your fellow Christians.

Well, you added a good number of circumstances to simply "falling" (if it could ever be simple). I guess I would ask this question...if the above story took place on an unchurched individual, and he then were saved, would he ever be allowed to enter the ministry? If the answer is, "Yes", I guess we would need to ask if the same grace that applies to him also applies to the man you mentioned.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I have an extremely difficult time proclaiming that a man cannot be reinstated to the ministry if he has committed adultery. In so doing, we have placed a limit on grace.

What's worse...adultery or a minister sitting by a fire with people who could endanger his well-being and cursing Christ, denying any association with him, and using vulgarities to speak it?

Peter did this, while nails were being driven through Christ's hands, yet he preached the featured sermon at the upcoming conference just 7 weeks later....the Day of Pentecost, the sermon that birthed the church, which is the Bride of Christ.

PLEASE NOTE ALL AFF POSTERS!!!! I AM NOT JUSTIFYING ADULTERY!!!
But what about this scripture.....

Ro 13:9* For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Or this one....

Mt 5:28* But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

For which one of these acts do we take away a man's ministry, forever?

BeenThinkin