Apostolic Theologians

[Sister Alvear]

Branhamites believe that...Predestination....

[Sister Alvear]

along with serpant seed and a lot of other things...

[Michael The Disciple]

I believe it because I see it in the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. Its not up to me what I believe its up to him.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

this according to wreckheart:



full article: http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics...tal/dakes.html

Belief that a person is saved by faith in Jesus Christ separate from water baptism and Spirit baptism is the Apostolic Faith as taught:
1) by the Apostles of the Lamb in our New Testament
2) and by the ministers of the Apostolic Faith in the late 1800's and early 1900's
3) and by ministers of the Apostolic Faith in our day.

The idea that water baptism saves a person or cleanses a person from sin, or that water baptism is the birth of water spoken of in John 3:5 is Roman Catholic doctrine. It can be found in the Roman Catholic Bible and writings. It is also taught by some "Protestant" groups who may have separated from the Roman Catholic Church to an extent but not far enough in doctrine. It is also the teaching of a group known as Campbellites. When some who saw the light of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ began to preach and teach that "the new issue" had now become part of a "plan of salvation" it is some times referred to as "the Campbellite captivity" of the church.

In my opinion, the idea that a person is not saved, or is not born again, or is not going to heaven until he/she speaks with tongues is not the teaching of the first century Apostles.

[PastorDaniel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I believe it because I see it in the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. Its not up to me what I believe its up to him.

I believe that the church is Predestined to overcome...I also believe that God has a certain plan that is Presdestined to come to place for this world.

However, the idea of complete Predestination for everything would lead you to have to say that it was God's Will for the drunk driver to kill the Mother and Children of a Christian family for no apparent reason. While the idea of free-will would allow us to blame the drunk driver who made a decision to get sloshed and get behind the wheel.

In His sovereignty...do we have to say that God allowed it to happen...yes we do...because He didn't intervene. However, it is allowance of free-will which proves His sovereignty. He created us in His own image and with that came the ability to make bad decisions that affect innocent people.

Without free-will His ultimate purpose of creating us for companionship would not work. I love out of my free will to love. God gave us free will so that He could have a people who would "choose" to worship Him. Yes, he could command it, but the love of a slave in bondage is not true love. There must be free-will.

I hope you will forgive my lack of scholarly source on my beliefs, but it doesn't seem that this post was using scriptures, just stating opinions. I wrote a paper in seminary on the subject of God's Sovereingty and Man's Free-will. In it, I came to the conclusion that God's Sovereignty is proved by His willingness to allow free-will.

[Sam]

Bro. Wrecker said, "The winds of this message of neo-Pentecostalism blew all the way to Apostolic Bible Church, St. Paul, Minnesota, to the pastorate office of Robert Sabin. He had already denied in his doctrine that speaking in tongues was the initial evidence of salvation."

What else would you expect from some one like him who is just the epitome of brotherly love and tolerance? How many here want to be part of his group?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by PastorDaniel

I believe that the church is Predestined to overcome...I also believe that God has a certain plan that is Presdestined to come to place for this world.

However, the idea of complete Predestination for everything would lead you to have to say that it was God's Will for the drunk driver to kill the Mother and Children of a Christian family for no apparent reason. While the idea of free-will would allow us to blame the drunk driver who made a decision to get sloshed and get behind the wheel.

In His sovereignty...do we have to say that God allowed it to happen...yes we do...because He didn't intervene. However, it is allowance of free-will which proves His sovereignty. He created us in His own image and with that came the ability to make bad decisions that affect innocent people.

Without free-will His ultimate purpose of creating us for companionship would not work. I love out of my free will to love. God gave us free will so that He could have a people who would "choose" to worship Him. Yes, he could command it, but the love of a slave in bondage is not true love. There must be free-will.

I hope you will forgive my lack of scholarly source on my beliefs, but it doesn't seem that this post was using scriptures, just stating opinions. I wrote a paper in seminary on the subject of God's Sovereingty and Man's Free-will. In it, I came to the conclusion that God's Sovereignty is proved by His willingness to allow free-will.

Hi Daniel,

The reason I posted no scriptures on predestination was because thats not the thread topic just a side issue of it. If you want to discuss it start a new thread or I will start one myself soon.

[PastorDaniel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi Daniel,

The reason I posted no scriptures on predestination was because thats not the thread topic just a side issue of it. If you want to discuss it start a new thread or I will start one myself soon.

I understand that ...and thats why I didn't as well...I would read it if you started one...might even post on it...but I graduated from a Presbyterian Christian College...and I'm two years into a MDiv at a Baptist Seminary....and I still don't believe in Predestination the way that Calvin taught it, and I have DEFINITLY had to study it, write about it, and support my reasons for not accepting it ...as I stated earlier...in my understanding of scripture, it just don't work with God's purpose for creating a people that would choose to worship him.

[Trouvere]

Jesus still gives freedom of choice.

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

please tell me why there are no theologians in the apostolic church. I have no idea.

We have plenty of them. They just tend not to write that much or do papers.

Seagraves, David Norris and a few others are pretty heavy hitters.