Hospital Will Not Hire Those Who Use Tobacco

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Dagwood

Evidently, you're not in the health care industry earning a living. Evidently, you don't see the aspect of my rates being raised and healthcare level remaining the same, to pay in part for those who choose to damage themselves. I don't smoke. Never have and certainly don't intend on changing that.

We can get so caught up in freedom, freedom, freedom to the point we become selfish in the process. So, yes, raise the rates on those who choose to damage their bodies. I could benefit from it since I don't smoke myself, therefore allowing me to pay for my children's health care issues that are far more pressing than mine. I've had my fair share of seeing how health care is so one-sided but I'm tired of being the victim of other people's downright selfishness in having the choice to what they feel. I'm already a victim of the government needlessly taking tax dollars to pay for the single mother raising 4, 5, or 6 kids without a father in the picture. Or, if there is a father in the picture, he's driving a 50k dollar Escalade or Benz while I'm sitting back trying to pay for my daughter's health issues that are far more pressing than a welfare child whose mom or shack-up boyfriend take their mutual offspring to the doctor for a simple runny nose...

You're in the health care industry I assume. Nicotine is as addictive as heroin. I know guys who started smoking when in the military, going through a divorce, after a parent or child died, etc. It's often something people get into when they are extremely stressed because it relaxes you. Before you know it, you're addicted. My experience with smoking was one such story. When my wife left me for some fling with a married man she worked with I was devestated. My entire life fell apart. My ministry crumbled. My work started suffering. I found myself only able to be a father half the time because she has him the other half of the time. I felt like the church turned it's back on me. In some ways, I felt like the church contributed to the problem (LONG story). So I started "going out" and yes, I started drinking to numb the pain. And while out socializing I had my first cigarette. At first, I'd only smoke if I went out for a drink after a stressful day of work (I'm in aviation security) or after my estranged wife would go wacko and torment me with threats that I'd never see my son again unless I did as she said. I never became an alcoholic. However, I found myself needing a smoke on the way to work and on the way home. Then it was on my breaks. Then I'd buy my own and smoke at home. It's an addiction that grows on you and it's absolute Hades to overcome. If anything... smoking itself should be considered an addiction that affects health... not necessarily a choice. Because for most people you can't just stop cold turkey with success. Most need a treatment to get off the nicotine... but that doesn't address the psychological side of the addiction.

Those who have never smoked may not understand the above. But it's true. In my opinion, smokers should be treated like they have already have a serious health condition.

Now... if you eat fast food for lunch. Now, that's an unhealthy choice that can be dropped in a second. According to your logic insurance rates should be increased for those who regularly eat fast food. America's number one health problem is heart disease due to obesity. Maybe if you don't eat salads for lunch every day... your rates should be increased.

[Dagwood]

Bottom line is that, while the principle may be worthy of disagreement among many, it is a private company doing what it feels is best for their employees. If it was the government, I could see the fuss because I'd be wagging my finger in their faces too.

It seems while people want to jump on private companies for policy changes and decisions made, there are frauds right underneath our noses who are contributing far more to the bigger problem than we realize. Welfare is where I start with that one -- where are the people who want to set them straight? Just trying to prove a point.

Until a federally-mandated smoking ban takes place, there are choices available for people to make if they don't like what's going at where they are working at the time.

[Amanah]

I work with young to middle aged professionals in a large corporation.

So my acquaintances consist mainly of professionals and church people who overwhelmingly disdain smoking.

Most people I know don't want to associate with smokers, don't want to breathe second hand smoke, would not date a smoker, don't want to eat in a restaurant near a smoker, ect.

Society changed its opinion about smoking and now it's not socially acceptable. I hope the same happens with drinking, drugs, unhealthy eating and other behaviors that are destructive.

I believe John Stuart Mill proposed changing people's behaviors with societal disapproval versus legislation, but I would have to go back and do some reading to make sure.

[Amanah]

ok

John Stuart Mill's book on Liberty:

"The remedy is civilization: "Social existence is only possible by a disciplining of those more powerful propensities, which consists in subordinating them to a common system of Opinions."

We can change the world by changing people's opinions about their behavior.

[NotforSale]

I smoked cigarettes for 10 years, and quit cold turkey because I didn’t like how they were hurting my lungs. My father died of lung cancer when he was in his 50's (he smoked 3 packs a day). I grew up when smoking was the thing to do. When I was in the Marines, many of us smoked. Tobacco use has been around forever. I might even smoke again if circumstances changed, or my life fell into insurmountable stress. As Aquila pointed out, smoking calmed his nerves, and this is why men in combat, smoke.

The bottom line is, people can smoke, chew, snort, use nicotine patches, and even drink nicotine drinks (Which are available in other Countries. My son in law found this out on his military tour in Iraq. Nicotine drinks were everywhere.)

I personally don't think it's anybody's business if someone wants to use nicotine, and that includes Christians who don't like tobacco products. Christians are also HUGE hypocrites when they tell others to NOT smoke, while they are stuffing their faces with food and drinks that are doing far more damage than Nicotine has ever done! Obesity is the number one Heath Epidemic in this Country, and Christians are the fattest of them all!

Smoking can kill someone, but so can riding a bicycle. If a person wants to torch their lungs with cigarettes, working in a coal mine, or breathing fumes from being a painter, the choice is not mine, it’s theirs. And, the more we make laws against everything, we end up needing more laws to uphold the law. This vicious cycle is exactly what happened to the Scribes and Pharisees, and those of Old Testament Law. The end result was, BONDAGE, not LIBERTY! Paul rebuked Christians, saying “Who hath bewitched, you??” referring to those who felt circumcision was necessary to please God.

If this Hospital doesn't want to hire people who smoke, fine, go find another Hospital to work at. But I will say this, our over-regulated society is about to fall over a cliff. 100 years ago, you could buy morphine at the local drug store WITHOUT a prescription. Today, folks, it's all about the MONEY!!! MONEY, HONEY!! The Pharmaceutical Industry is massive with MONEY and POWER!

Laws and Regulations are big business, while at the same time, these supposable safeguards are slowly putting us in a prison where everything we do is being watched and monitored!!

I don’t need the Government, Religion, or friends to tell me that I can’t smoke! If I want to smoke, I’ll smoke, just like the Indians did. In fact, we could use a Peace Pipe on AFF once in a while!!

I have a good friend who told me a few weeks ago; his great grandmother and great grandfather lived to be well over 100 (one was 110 and the other was 103 when they died). They both smoked and drank alcohol until they died. He also told me, they rolled their own cigarettes, avoiding the dangerous chemicals found in modern cigarettes that are made in today’s factories.

You can also tell everyone how TERRIBLE smoking is, and how the person who died of lung cancer, they withered away to nothing in absolute pain and suffering. But don’t forget to tell them about the Apostolic Christian who was severly obese, dieing of stomach cancer because they ate junk food, and on their hospital bed they were in so much pain, the doctor gave her so much pain medication, she actually died from the medicine (I personally watched this happen).

Oh, and don’t forget, we will all die of something…and to be honest, I don’t want to live to be old, winding up in a rest home with Alzheimer’s Disease, or unable to walk because my legs or back are toast from old age. In some ways, I think my dad was a lucky guy.

[Hoovie]

I would support not hiring people with high cholesterol or obesity, if it could be linked to their eating habits, the same as I would support not hiring someone who smokes in their off time. Bad policy.

As a side issue, insurance should be able to charge what they wish. Or not even cover smokers and obese people.

[AreYouReady?]

The name of the game is "control over the people".

While I abhor smoking because what I've been through and what I've seen others go through, I truly do understand why people are bucking up against these regulations. I
I live in a region where whole cities banned smoking in all public buildings, restaurants, stores etc. Yes, they will fine private business for anybody smoking inside. There has been little resistance to the smoking ban.

On a more insidious note, many hospitals are forcing their staff to take vaccines. Some will not agree with me about vaccines, but I've done an in-depth study about them after I had a series of vaccines and developed an auto-immune illness. I can quit smoking, drinking (I don't drink) and all that, but I draw the line at forced immunizations. Do a study of what is actually in vaccines...not what they tell you, but what actually is in them.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're in the health care industry I assume. Nicotine is as addictive as heroin. I know guys who started smoking when in the military, going through a divorce, after a parent or child died, etc. It's often something people get into when they are extremely stressed because it relaxes you. Before you know it, you're addicted. My experience with smoking was one such story. When my wife left me for some fling with a married man she worked with I was devestated. My entire life fell apart. My ministry crumbled. My work started suffering. I found myself only able to be a father half the time because she has him the other half of the time. I felt like the church turned it's back on me. In some ways, I felt like the church contributed to the problem (LONG story). So I started "going out" and yes, I started drinking to numb the pain. And while out socializing I had my first cigarette. At first, I'd only smoke if I went out for a drink after a stressful day of work (I'm in aviation security) or after my estranged wife would go wacko and torment me with threats that I'd never see my son again unless I did as she said. I never became an alcoholic. However, I found myself needing a smoke on the way to work and on the way home. Then it was on my breaks. Then I'd buy my own and smoke at home. It's an addiction that grows on you and it's absolute Hades to overcome. If anything... smoking itself should be considered an addiction that affects health... not necessarily a choice. Because for most people you can't just stop cold turkey with success. Most need a treatment to get off the nicotine... but that doesn't address the psychological side of the addiction.

Those who have never smoked may not understand the above. But it's true. In my opinion, smokers should be treated like they have already have a serious health condition.

I feel for you brother Aquilla. I found myself planning my day around cigarettes when I did smoke. When I sneezed, I blew out brown nicotine. I was 23 when I found I was out of breath walking 50 feet. I've heard it said that nicotine was just as hard to withdrawal as heroin.

I've also been in the place where my life fell apart into little pieces. I've been to the place where numbness ruled the days of living. Only those who lived through a shattering experience know how bad this really is and very few really care. Most do not know how to help someone in this condition unless they have been there themselves.

But during those times of feeling absolutely alone, I felt the Holy Ghost wrap itself around me when I cried out and that gave me true comfort. Many days I've cried, and God was always there. People scattered because they do not know how to help, but God never leaves.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I work with young to middle aged professionals in a large corporation.

So my acquaintances consist mainly of professionals and church people who overwhelmingly disdain smoking.

Most people I know don't want to associate with smokers, don't want to breathe second hand smoke, would not date a smoker, don't want to eat in a restaurant near a smoker, ect.

Society changed its opinion about smoking and now it's not socially acceptable. I hope the same happens with drinking, drugs, unhealthy eating and other behaviors that are destructive.

I believe John Stuart Mill proposed changing people's behaviors with societal disapproval versus legislation, but I would have to go back and do some reading to make sure.

That's the only thing that really works anyway. We can put legislation in order all we want to but nothing really changes until the mindset of the people actually changes.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Dagwood

Bottom line is that, while the principle may be worthy of disagreement among many, it is a private company doing what it feels is best for their employees. If it was the government, I could see the fuss because I'd be wagging my finger in their faces too.

It seems while people want to jump on private companies for policy changes and decisions made, there are frauds right underneath our noses who are contributing far more to the bigger problem than we realize. Welfare is where I start with that one -- where are the people who want to set them straight? Just trying to prove a point.

Until a federally-mandated smoking ban takes place, there are choices available for people to make if they don't like what's going at where they are working at the time.

Neither the government nor the corporations we work for are our nannies. There is no difference between one telling me how to live on my own time, on my own property. The way I see it, if the corporation I work for controls me 24/7, they should pay me 24/7.

Ultimately, the courts are at fault for giving them the power to do this.