Westboro Baptist Church Similarities - Page 6

Dagwood · #51 11-22-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

you might want to hear some of the sermons, there is one by Bro Epley located at the bottom of the list
also one by Nona Freeman

http://www.apostolicclassics.com/sermons.html

With all due respect, I'll pass. I see enough on here that I'll kindy pass on the offer. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. It's just that my time of hearing messages of exclusiveness, centered around "the mother ship" instead of the ship of Zion, are no more...

Nona Freeman, on the other hand, is someone I could listen to given her missionary life. I actually saw her speak at Emmanuel Pentecostal Church in Mesquite, TX back in the summer of '07 strictly about her missions and what God has done in places she and her husband ministered. Absolute fantastic lady of the faith to listen to...

Amanah · #52 11-22-2011, 10:20 AM

it's too bad that you don't take the time to listen to Bro Epley preach, his message is full of faith and love.

Dagwood · #53 11-22-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

it's too bad that you don't take the time to listen to Bro Epley preach, his message is full of faith and love.

Based on certain environments I've been in, I'm a resonable skeptic and try not to broadbrush. That wasn't my intent when making my statement. However, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt...

Cindy · #54 11-22-2011, 01:06 PM

Let's watch the rhetoric people. We can have discussions without name calling.

MissBrattified · #55 11-22-2011, 01:22 PM

I have heard preachers who voice hatred and arrogance similar to (although never as extreme) as the WBC. However, to compare any Christian who believes that __________ will send you to hell to the WBC simply for possessing that belief is a stretch at best. If I read scripture and I see something in black and white, and then do NOT share that with a lost and dying world, it means I don't truly care about their souls. Now, should that *truth* as I see it be screamed at them? Shoved down their throats? Coupled with curse words and curses? Spoken in hatred? Or even rudely? Of course not. But it has to be shared. Simply put, if you don't share it, you don't believe it's important. Or you don't truly care. The things that I believe are truly heaven-or-hell deal breakers--I share. As kindly, politely, lovingly and tactfully as possible, but I get it out there. An obligation to God and to a lost world requires it.

The WBC isn't wrong for believing that homosexuality is a sin or that it will send people to hell. They're wrong for refusing to allow Christ to dictate how they interact with a sinful world. They're wrong for being proud and arrogant and hateful and mean and for tarnishing the reputation of the Church in the eyes of the world. It has nothing to do with the fact that they possess strong beliefs. It has nothing to do with them preaching strong beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

...I think most of us would consider this well beyond extreme, but it's really not that different from some preachers telling people that they are going to Hell because they wear jewelry and/or make up. They justify this "teaching" by saying that those things are rooted in pride.

I completely disagree. Preachers (and Christians) have a responsibility to preach the truth of God's Word, and being only human, they can only preach the truth as they understand it. If they read the Word--or even if they simply observe our present society--and believe that jewelry and make-up are vices that will send people to hell, then they should preach about it. It would be irresponsible and uncaring of them to do otherwise.

Whether a person is right or not (assuming your assessment is the correct one--obviously that is very subjective) is not the point here; the point is that in order to preach and teach with integrity, you must share what you truly believe, reflected in God's Word. Speaking the truth in love. Having a good reputation both within and without. But still--speaking the truth.

I have encountered a few preachers with nasty attitudes over the years, but none of them have ever come close to the WBC, even at their meanest. No comparison. WBC is the most hateful sect of "Christians" I have ever heard of.

Amanah · #56 11-22-2011, 01:38 PM

well said Miss B

Chateau d'If · #57 11-22-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

It may be about rules too, but you can't say it's not about relationship for Apostolics.

I had an incredible relationship with God the 13 years I was an UC. And I don't doubt that the preachers I knew loved God and loved people.

What hurt me was the elitist and controlling attitudes, and the feeling that I could never be good enough, no matter how hard I tried.

What is hindering me now, is that many have abandoned the old time pentecostal mind set and legalistic preaching, fine, but many have also gone even further and altered the message.

So we are at a crossroad where people have gone from having standards shoved down their throats to having to stand on their own two feet and find a place to stand for themselves.

It's a whole nother journey when you are trying to set your own moral compass and define truth when the lighthouse is being obscured by a storm.

This is an interesting sentence, and worthy of discussion.

Amanah, I spent many years in bondage to legalism, and while I yet live by many of those standards, I have been freed from the mindset that accompanied them.

Before, I would wonder why people who gave up on standards changed doctrine too. During my own transformation I realized the reason. The truth is that the basic doctrine of many Apostolics is wrong at it's core. And when a foundation is off level the entire structure starts to tilt.

The problem is that people in OP start with a belief that they need to help God save. They view baptism as a work, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost as a vehicle to Heaven instead of an empowering experience.

This leads to a lot of efforting. Trying to get people to speak in tongues. Trying to get people to line up. Trying to become perfect.

And yet no one ever achieves perfection because it's impossible to do so.

Legalism is like a mannequin. The end result is a hollow shell. It looks like Christianity, but it lacks the life and joy that Christianity should bring.

Chateau d'If · #58 11-22-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I have heard preachers who voice hatred and arrogance similar to (although never as extreme) as the WBC. However, to compare any Christian who believes that __________ will send you to hell to the WBC simply for possessing that belief is a stretch at best. If I read scripture and I see something in black and white, and then do NOT share that with a lost and dying world, it means I don't truly care about their souls. Now, should that *truth* as I see it be screamed at them? Shoved down their throats? Coupled with curse words and curses? Spoken in hatred? Or even rudely? Of course not. But it has to be shared. Simply put, if you don't share it, you don't believe it's important. Or you don't truly care. The things that I believe are truly heaven-or-hell deal breakers--I share. As kindly, politely, lovingly and tactfully as possible, but I get it out there. An obligation to God and to a lost world requires it.

The WBC isn't wrong for believing that homosexuality is a sin or that it will send people to hell. They're wrong for refusing to allow Christ to dictate how they interact with a sinful world. They're wrong for being proud and arrogant and hateful and mean and for tarnishing the reputation of the Church in the eyes of the world. It has nothing to do with the fact that they possess strong beliefs. It has nothing to do with them preaching strong beliefs.

I completely disagree. Preachers (and Christians) have a responsibility to preach the truth of God's Word, and being only human, they can only preach the truth as they understand it. If they read the Word--or even if they simply observe our present society--and believe that jewelry and make-up are vices that will send people to hell, then they should preach about it. It would be irresponsible and uncaring of them to do otherwise.

Whether a person is right or not (assuming your assessment is the correct one--obviously that is very subjective) is not the point here; the point is that in order to preach and teach with integrity, you must share what you truly believe, reflected in God's Word. Speaking the truth in love. Having a good reputation both within and without. But still--speaking the truth.

I have encountered a few preachers with nasty attitudes over the years, but none of them have ever come close to the WBC, even at their meanest. No comparison. WBC is the most hateful sect of "Christians" I have ever heard of.

I've heard, with my own ears, and in person, an Apostolic preacher state that God hates fags. And he did so because he knew there was a visitor in the church that was struggling with homosexuality.

Sister, I agree that the WBC is the worst of the worst. My point, however, is that I have seen, and do see, the same spirit attached to many conservative Apostolics.

Bishop Cleatus · #59 11-22-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrow Is The Way

And while you're at it.

Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Faith.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Love.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Deliverance.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Miracles.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in One God.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Mercy.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Baptism in Jesus Name.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Restoration.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Prayer.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against lying.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against stealing.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against having a bad attitude.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against cheating.

I am sure he would answer yes to all the above.

Quit acting like the Holiness preachers are just one-trick ponies.

Just because you found a few idiots along the way does not mean that Holiness preachers don't have a right to preach Holiness with Love and Conviction.

It takes the whole package to be saved.
You will not be saved without inward and outward holiness.

Just because somebody has more lines than you do, does not make them a pharisee.

Ahem.

Bishop Cleatus · #60 11-22-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagwood

With all due respect, I'll pass. I see enough on here that I'll kindy pass on the offer. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. It's just that my time of hearing messages of exclusiveness, centered around "the mother ship" instead of the ship of Zion, are no more...

Nona Freeman, on the other hand, is someone I could listen to given her missionary life. I actually saw her speak at Emmanuel Pentecostal Church in Mesquite, TX back in the summer of '07 strictly about her missions and what God has done in places she and her husband ministered. Absolute fantastic lady of the faith to listen to...

Same here. I'm sure the sermon is excellent, but his "message" that I have seen on this forum over the years - or maybe the delivery of the message - is a problem for me.