Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

[tv1a]

The pope is apostolic.

Originally Posted by ILG

I'm not Apostolic anymore. Shrug.

[tv1a]

Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

I find this phenomenon with people. People who leave the Church are generally the one's that point back and make references to them "being on a higher spiritual plane". It's rooted in bitterness.

They feel offended because they are labeled as backsliders, so they allow that seed of bitterness to creep in their hearts and control their outlook on the Church.

Phenomenon?

For those of you who are Holy Ghost filled, loving men and women of God, this post is not for you. For those of you who are making efforts to live the best way you know how for God, this post is not for you. I recognize that there are many kind and loving Spirit-filled people in the Pentecostal ranks. So please do not take this post into yourselves. It is not for you.
And Brother Joe, I am thinking that this post is not even for you because when I was your age, I had the same responses. Frankly, I just did not know what kind reaction I was contributing to from people who were trying to tell me something with those responses I once had.

My response to your post:
So why do some of you people label others as "backsliders" when you know nothing about the other person? What purpose can you possibly have hidden in your heart to even have the need to LABEL somebody else as backslidden unless you want to describe other people who do not agree to some of your standards in a negative way?

You people react to negativism in the same manner as the "backslidden". Only you people use the many Bible verses to throw at the people you people reject because of the club rules and then chortle "It's bible". Yet, very few of you people will take a step to help restore people that are labeled "backslidden" by your group.

If there is any root of bitterness in people's heart, it is because the root came from some of you so-called Apostolics in the first place with all your man made rules and superior attitudes of you must obey "the man of God".

Don't you know that everybody who has the Holy Ghost is a man of God or a woman of God? Not just those who go to the Seminary or get Ordination papers by another group of people. It is who God makes righteous for only God can see what is inside a person's heart. All the rest of us, pentecostal or not, should take the attitude that our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Yeah I know out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. But some of you call it "root of bitterness" when you do not want to listen to how the people feel. I can speak of phenomenons likewise. That is a phenomenon where people cannot engage in honest dialogue because they do not want to hear how the other person feels nor expend any energy changing themselves and conforming to the actual Word of God in the Bible. Or they just do not want to leave other people alone to work out their own salvation with the Lord. Charity covers a multitude of sins right?

Sorry. I don't buy your statement. Many Apostolics deliberately shut people out of their church system by the way they treat others who do not agree with them. Those type of people are afraid of the very things Pilgrum mentioned. And I don't think most Apostolics are sorry for the experience they help contribute to a person who leaves, then labels them to be a "backslider". Some Apostolics tear down their own house, then blame it on their victims.

Originally Posted by BroJoe

For the record, I hold that anyone who slides away from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message is considered backslidden. No other way to describe it.

I'm sorry this has been your experience.

I know without a shadow of a doubt that all people who backslide from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message are backslid from God.

Acts 2:38, 1 God, and Holiness is what it's gonna take for anyone to see the Father. I'm in the book here.

If people wanna leave the WPF, AA, ALJC, UPCI, UAC, or whatever Apostolic organization you can come up with, and they go independent that's one thing.

There are many people who hold to Acts 2:38 and believe it with all their heart. But there are many in your ranks who only look upon the outward appearance and determine that they are "backslid" and treat them horribly. I think that is arrogance to make such a determination in this manner. You may not do this, but there are plenty of people who do and others who play follow the leader.

I feel that most people who do leave is not because they reject Acts 2:38 at all. But more likely they reject the treatment they receive at the hands of the Apostolics for asking questions, for disagreeing with other things taught that are extra biblical.

The Bible has specifics about a brother or sister who is backslid.


9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. I Corinthians 6:9,10

And
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

But many of the pentecostals lump the cutting of hair, the relaxing of the dress "standards" cosmetics, and used to be beards and mustaches for men etc to be
the measuring stick to tell who is backslid or on their way.

Heh. I've found people who are supposedly "in the church" guilty of one or more of the above scriptures, yet because they adhere to those "standards" they continue to just click right along.

Furthermore, there are many "holiness" people who go out of their way to persecute the labeled "backslid" instead of looking at themselves and the things they say and do that played a part in people leaving the system. They look at the "backslid" and accuse them of having a root of bitterness, all the while they themselves have a controlling, unkind and unloving greedy spirit.

And...there are some out there that preach outright lies for reasons only known to God and to them. You see we may not know these reasons, but God surely does and it does not mean we have to sit in a pew and become indoctrinated with it.

[Saul Stephen]

Well now, we can see by this conversation on the subject of falling away, stills brings to light personal feelings, and things taught that we disagree with. Regrettably so, but, it really concerns me, that the reality here, is not what we think, but what are we doing about it. You all know who lacks here, or who may be teaching us all of a known truth, are we living according to his word. Argumentative yes or no. If there is no conviction, god given, the life suffers because of it. So, my dear friends, we have indeed, just entered into the personal question that is presented to each one of us , " do you have a personal walk with god]? I do, and with great respect to the young andrew 8383, we simply say, amen.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Phenomenon?

For those of you who are Holy Ghost filled, loving men and women of God, this post is not for you. For those of you who are making efforts to live the best way you know how for God, this post is not for you. I recognize that there are many kind and loving Spirit-filled people in the Pentecostal ranks. So please do not take this post into yourselves. It is not for you.
And Brother Joe, I am thinking that this post is not even for you because when I was your age, I had the same responses. Frankly, I just did not know what kind reaction I was contributing to from people who were trying to tell me something with those responses I once had.

My response to your post:
So why do some of you people label others as "backsliders" when you know nothing about the other person? What purpose can you possibly have hidden in your heart to even have the need to LABEL somebody else as backslidden unless you want to describe other people who do not agree to some of your standards in a negative way?

You people react to negativism in the same manner as the "backslidden". Only you people use the many Bible verses to throw at the people you people reject because of the club rules and then chortle "It's bible". Yet, very few of you people will take a step to help restore people that are labeled "backslidden" by your group.

If there is any root of bitterness in people's heart, it is because the root came from some of you so-called Apostolics in the first place with all your man made rules and superior attitudes of you must obey "the man of God".

Don't you know that everybody who has the Holy Ghost is a man of God or a woman of God? Not just those who go to the Seminary or get Ordination papers by another group of people. It is who God makes righteous for only God can see what is inside a person's heart. All the rest of us, pentecostal or not, should take the attitude that our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Yeah I know out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. But some of you call it "root of bitterness" when you do not want to listen to how the people feel. I can speak of phenomenons likewise. That is a phenomenon where people cannot engage in honest dialogue because they do not want to hear how the other person feels nor expend any energy changing themselves and conforming to the actual Word of God in the Bible. Or they just do not want to leave other people alone to work out their own salvation with the Lord. Charity covers a multitude of sins right?

Sorry. I don't buy your statement. Many Apostolics deliberately shut people out of their church system by the way they treat others who do not agree with them. Those type of people are afraid of the very things Pilgrum mentioned. And I don't think most Apostolics are sorry for the experience they help contribute to a person who leaves, then labels them to be a "backslider". Some Apostolics tear down their own house, then blame it on their victims.




There are many people who hold to Acts 2:38 and believe it with all their heart. But there are many in your ranks who only look upon the outward appearance and determine that they are "backslid" and treat them horribly. I think that is arrogance to make such a determination in this manner. You may not do this, but there are plenty of people who do and others who play follow the leader.

I feel that most people who do leave is not because they reject Acts 2:38 at all. But more likely they reject the treatment they receive at the hands of the Apostolics for asking questions, for disagreeing with other things taught that are extra biblical.

The Bible has specifics about a brother or sister who is backslid.


9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. I Corinthians 6:9,10

And
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

But many of the pentecostals lump the cutting of hair, the relaxing of the dress "standards" cosmetics, and used to be beards and mustaches for men etc to be
the measuring stick to tell who is backslid or on their way.

Heh. I've found people who are supposedly "in the church" guilty of one or more of the above scriptures, yet because they adhere to those "standards" they continue to just click right along.

Furthermore, there are many "holiness" people who go out of their way to persecute the labeled "backslid" instead of looking at themselves and the things they say and do that played a part in people leaving the system. They look at the "backslid" and accuse them of having a root of bitterness, all the while they themselves have a controlling, unkind and unloving greedy spirit.

And...there are some out there that preach outright lies for reasons only known to God and to them. You see we may not know these reasons, but God surely does and it does not mean we have to sit in a pew and become indoctrinated with it.

Wonderful post AYR!

I might also sum up what I believe about being Apostolic as this.

Living as the early church apostolics did, bringing about works produced by the SPIRIT, and not works produced by our flesh.

Big difference.

We can be Ananias and Sapphira on the outside manifesting all the appropriate flesh works, but are we like Paul and other apostles, producing works and fruit supporting the evidence of the Spirit of Christ indwelling us?

There is a big difference between works that our flesh produce, as opposed to the works and fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Remember Ananias and Sapphira, and compare their works with say, the works of Stephen or Paul....

How are you measuring up in the eyes of God, INSTEAD of the eyes of man?

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Saul Stephen

So, my dear friends, we have indeed, just entered into the personal question that is presented to each one of us , " do you have a personal walk with god]? I do, and with great respect to the young andrew 8383, we simply say, amen.

And what does a personal walk with God consist of?

Read Galatians 5:1-26 for just a glimpse of what God expects from us. There's more.

You have hit the nail on the head. Our walk is personal, not to be ridiculed by other believers because our walk is not the same of the "convictions" of other believers.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

How are you measuring up in the eyes of God, INSTEAD of the eyes of man?

Fear God.

Obey the Holy Spirit.

Quench not the Holy Spirit.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Andrew8383

Most of my Sunday school teachers, friends from church, pastors family have all backslid. This is from my childhood not my current church. My current pastor still believes in the old standards and ways, which I love. I'm the Youth Pastor and I know the bible speaks of the great falling away but it makes me so angry to see this. Anyone else notice this in their area?

If the great falling away is no longer being "Apostolic" defined as a rigid set of codes for dress and entertainment etc etc, Acts 2:38 and Oneness then it the great falling away happened centuries ago.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

I find this phenomenon with people. People who leave the Church are generally the one's that point back and make references to them "being on a higher spiritual plane". It's rooted in bitterness.

They feel offended because they are labeled as backsliders, so they allow that seed of bitterness to creep in their hearts and control their outlook on the Church.

For the record, I hold that anyone who slides away from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message is considered backslidden. No other way to describe it.



I'm sorry this has been your experience.




I know without a shadow of a doubt that all people who backslide from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message are backslid from God.

Acts 2:38, 1 God, and Holiness is what it's gonna take for anyone to see the Father. I'm in the book here.

If people wanna leave the WPF, AA, ALJC, UPCI, UAC, or whatever Apostolic organization you can come up with, and they go independent that's one thing.

I find that finger pointers and the so called "bitter" are in the groups "Those that left" and "those that stayed"

I think most people agree with Holiness, we just don't all agree that some orgs "standard" of "outward Holiness" applies to everyone as God's idea of Holiness

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I follow the Apostles doctrine including Acts 2:38. I dont follow false doctrine like its sin for men to have a beard. Or like its sin for a woman to trim her hair. Surely you dont teach such things amen?

Amen1