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Originally Posted by deafdriscoll
I have seen similar topics here before. my marriage license cost me $20. So, now we are going to whine over 20 bucks. come on people. Jesus said to give ceasar what belongs to ceasar and give to god what is gods.
The state protects us and as a citizen the state does own you like christ owns you. The state has the right to draft you in war.
christ has said that you may have to give your life for your faith. The state may have you die on some battlefield. The state is our worldly owner while christ is our eternal owner. while we live here on this earth we are responsible to the local authorities as long as it does not voilate our faith.
Our nation became our new owners on The 4th of July 1776.
Dennis Grime |
LOL It is petty to argue about a $20 - $60 dollar licensing fee. However, Jesus did establish a solid wall between church and state when Jesus said that we are to render unto Caesar (the state) that which is Caesar’s and render unto God (the church) that which is God’s. So the question is… does the institution of marriage belong to the state or to God???
In biblical times a marriage was viewed as being between individuals and their God. Marriages were typically the domain of the families and individuals. Families arranged marriages and individuals entered into marriage. The marriage contract was viewed as a private contract uniting the assets of two families or individuals. All that was needed to validate the authenticity of a marriage were two witnesses. Should the marriage fail all that was necessary to legally allow remarriage was a “writ of divorcement”. The state was only called into the situation if a serious issue arose involving property, inheritance, or children. However, if the parties involved handled their business well, and privately, the state didn’t get involved.
As the church began to become politically powerful popes and kings claimed divine rights. And thus the state began to creep into everything from communion, to baptism, to yes… marriage. Soon marriages that were not under the auspices of the state church were declared illicit. To protect their estates royalty began to require a “marriage license”. This was to prevent any upper class royalty from marrying any non-royal lower class. It also allowed the state church to regulate remarriage via the police power of the state. Soon, kings were declaring war and severing themselves from the state church to retain the right to remarry as they so desire because of marriage licensing and the state churches refusal to acknowledge such remarriages. Remember, a “license” is expressed permission from an authorized authority to do that which would otherwise be illegal. Thus, if a government requires a “marriage license”… they have declared marriage illegal unless granted. Does the state really have this much power in the eyes of God???
Jesus tells us, what GOD has joined together, let no man put asunder. Notice, God joins a man and wife… not Caesar.
For this reason colonists in America married without marriage licenses. George Washington didn’t seek a marriage license. In those days, a marriage was private and recorded in the family Bible. This is why even to this day many Bibles come with marriage certificates or listings to record marriages in the front of them. The Quakers embraced “self-officiating marriage” wherein a couple declared their love and essentially pronounced themselves husband and wife publically before their church body… all without marriage licenses. Even to this very day, many Quakers choose not to seek marriage licenses and “self-officiate” their marriages without registering them with the state. Should we believe that Quaker couples married in this fashion aren't really married??? Back to history... It wasn’t until various communities wanted to use state power to prohibit whites from marrying non-whites that marriage licenses came into play in America. To marry a person of a different race, the state had to issue a license to do so. And states only did so in vary limited circumstances. Hence marrying someone of a different race was officially “illegal”. This trend continued through many states until it became law that every couple had to file for a marriage license. To solemnize marriages, clergy were then required to act as “agents of the state” and had to be licensed. Should a “licensed minister” marry a couple without a marriage license… that minister could lose their “license”. And as a result, the state completely took over the institution of marriage in the United States.
With the United States government being the sole arbitrator of marriage, questions began to arise concerning “civil rights”. Soon cases such as Lovings vs. Virginia began to surface, wherein it was argued that the “state” wasn’t operating “constitutionally” providing “equal representation under the law”. Discrimination became an issue. And today… the gay community has been challenging the state to recognize “gay marriage”… and sadly… the state is doing so. The problem with this is that the state has no God given authority over marriage. Therefore the state had no God given right to redefine it. However, IF marriage is the domain of the state… the state holds the authority to not only redefine it… but to make it illegal entirely. We saw this in ancient Rome when Rome began forcing men into military service by conscription to advance the empire. Roman soldiers were forbidden to marry, and since all males throughout the city of Rome were subject to the conscription, all marriages within the city were banned and engagements canceled. However, one man refused to obey the imperial edict… a priest by the name of Valentinus (St. Valentine). As legend had it, lovers would steal away into the night to find Valentinus and be married illegally under the cloak of darkness. When the emperor heard that Valentinus was still marrying couples, he had Valentinus arrested. When Valentinus refused to renounce his Christian faith, the emperor had him sentenced to death. Valentinus was executed on February 14th. As a result, this early martyr is remembered on February 14th, a holiday known as…Valentine’s Day.
While the state holds such powers, they are not God given. Our Founders were solidly against conscription (drafting) for war. The draft is therefore distinctly un-American. And no, it doesn’t mean that the state owns me. It means that the state THINKS it owns me. Should the state wish to try to draft me, I’d state against the action as part of my religious duty to God. Because God didn’t give the state that authority. I’d rather go to jail… or die a martyr. Either way… I’m free and I’ll not allow them to enslave me.
I pray you’re being facetious about the state being our owner. Because such statist thinking is exactly what I’m addressing. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and render unto God that which is God’s… and I’m here to say that marriage isn’t Caesar’s.
Re: The Marriage Contract
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