Inquisition in Houston, TX

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No...again no. She is not. She can't. She is not the IRS. If so it needs to go to the IRS

She may have jumped the gun but I think her buddy in the white house will assist and guide her if she pursues. The IRS came after the tea party with getting the nod from Obama I'm sure.

But yes you are correct.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Sean

I think the pulpit should be used for the word of God only, not politics. A minister could run off a conservative(union) democrat from his congregation bashing democrats. The world can be won through conversions, not politics.(we cant legislate morality)

Agreed, but a lot of things can be construed as "politics." Our pastor never talks about specific candidates, but he makes generic statements like "vote with your conscience; not your pocketbook." What a pastor has the freedom to do and what he should do are two different matters.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No...again no. She is not. She can't. She is not the IRS. If so it needs to go to the IRS

But then...the 501c3 doesn't even matter, really. So a church dips into politics and loses their tax-exempt status. Big deal. That still doesn't mean their free speech can or should be inhibited or that there should be any repercussions from the local, state or federal government for what is said inside the church or within the church community.

The City Attorney was spinning in circles yesterday, trying to explain how he would have reworded the document, and he hadn't really changed a word when he finished. He was still basically supporting the idea that they could subpoena "communications" in whatever form they might take, including sermons. He snarked about how that people were overreacting and then pretty much reaffirmed the whole reason for paranoia in the first place. They aren't backing down off their position.

I hope that no pastor in Houston is cowed into actually turning anything over. I would rather be held in contempt of court and tossed into jail for a few nights than give that mayor and her legal snake what they want.

[crakjak]

She's going to get her nose bloodied on this one, huge over reach of authority and violation of the Constitution!!

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

From Legal Insurrection:

She really doesn't have a peg leg to stand on.

(Apologies to anyone with a peg leg.)

[Rudy]

In reading the latest it seems the Mayor may be probing for a slander law suit. If slander is the motivation they may have to turn over sermons according to some lawyers.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Rudy

In reading the latest it seems the Mayor may be probing for a slander law suit. If slander is the motivation they may have to turn over sermons according to some lawyers.

This is just an attempt by her to defend her abuse of power. She knows she messed up and made a lot of people, even atheists and others, angry; so now by claiming slander, she's hoping to gain some sympathy.

What's next, accusing them of hate speech?

The right thing for her to do would be resign, but when has a Democrat ever done the right thing? Especially her kind of Democrat.

[Pressing-On]

Sen. Cruz: The City of Houston Has No Power to Silence the Church
Stands with Houston Pastors
October 16, 2014
|
(202) 228-7561

WASHINGTON, DC -- U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, today stood in defense of Houston pastors’ First Amendment right to speak and worship freely, calling upon Houstonians to stand firm against the City of Houston’s recent subpoena requiring pastors to submit sermons and other forms of communication.

“Today we all stand united in defense of religious liberty, and we all stand united in defense of our pastors,” said Sen. Cruz. “Our nation is an exceptional nation, it is a unique nation. We were founded on the radical concept that rights do not come from government, but they come from the Almighty God.

“This is a country that was formed centuries ago by people fleeing religious persecution seeking a land where you do not need to seek the permission of a king or queen or president to preach the Word of God, because we serve a higher authority.”

In his remarks, Sen. Cruz noted several recent assaults on religious liberty:

The IRS illegally targeting Americans and requests for content of their prayers;
The Air Force Chaplain, who was forced to remove his blog post stating, “There are no Atheists in foxholes;”
The Obama Administration’s litigation against organizations such as Hobby Lobby and the Catholic group of nuns, the Little Sisters of the Poor, forcing them to either violate their conscience or face crippling faith fines.

Sen. Cruz concluded, “Yet as we’ve seen it across the country, our hearts are particularly broken that we are seeing it here in Houston, Texas. This week, the government of Houston, Texas sent a subpoena to silence prayers. The government of Houston, Texas demanded of the pastors, hand over your sermons to the government. The city of Houston has no power – no legal authority – to silence the church. Caesar has no jurisdiction over the pulpit, and when you subpoena one pastor, you subpoena every pastor.”

http://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1809

[Pressing-On]

October 16,2014

The following quote may be attributed to Alliance Defending Freedom Litigation Counsel Christiana Holcomb regarding the unsupported claim that the city of Houston is “backing off” or “narrowing” its subpoena request for the sermons and communications of pastors in Woodfill v. Parker:

“The shame that the city of Houston has brought upon itself is real, but the claim that it has changed course is not. The city so far has taken no concrete action to withdraw the subpoenas. Furthermore, the subpoenas themselves are the problem – not just their request for pastors’ sermons. The city is not off the hook from its illegitimate request for e-mails, text messages, and other communications in which these pastors, who are not even party to this lawsuit, may have disagreed with the mayor. The way to fix this is to withdraw the subpoenas entirely. Otherwise, the city’s and the mayor’s overtures are simply more window-dressing intended to shield them from public scrutiny.”

http://www.adfmedia.org/News/PRDetail/9357

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by n david

This is just an attempt by her to defend her abuse of power. She knows she messed up and made a lot of people, even atheists and others, angry; so now by claiming slander, she's hoping to gain some sympathy.

What's next, accusing them of hate speech?

The right thing for her to do would be resign, but when has a Democrat ever done the right thing? Especially her kind of Democrat.

Well there are those who like to mouth off from the pulpit. A few O.P.s have been sued for slander.

Gays have a slogan now to fight against Gay bashing, "bash back" The church I use to attend had their van spray painted by gays bashing back--oh my!

[n david]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Well there are those who like to mouth off from the pulpit. A few O.P.s have been sued for slander.

Gays have a slogan now to fight against Gay bashing, "bash back" The church I use to attend had their van spray painted by gays bashing back--oh my!

IIRC, there were some posts here somewhere about at least one UPC Pastor who was sued for slander.

The problem here is the Mayor has not shown any proof of slander. In order to sue for slander, she needs proof of it actually occuring. She can't subpoena and go on a witch hunt to try and find some kind of evidence...which is what she's trying to do.

slan·der/ˈslandər/
slander n. oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an
untruth about another which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed.

There have to be lies spoken against the person in order for a slander suit to be successful. Again, the Mayor has not made any mention of lies being spoken from the pulpit against her.

I don't believe this is about slander. I don't believe these Pastors mouthed off against her. I believe this is a corrupt bully using her office to try and force her agenda through and silence anyone who dare stands against her.