Oh WAKE UP people!!

[n david]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I'd say getting involved in government is pretty different from civil disobedience. As per civil disobedience, wouldn't Rom 13 be against that?

I agree. I apologize for muddling the subject here.

While I'm 100% for Christians being involved in civil government; I do not believe we should promote anarchy or insurrection. Get informed. Get organized. Get elected.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Do you REALLY believe we didn't understand our own Constitution for almost 200 years until a 1962 Supreme Court told us what it REALLY meant and declared prayer in public schools to be illegal? Do you??

Even if you see no value in prayer in public schools you should still be outraged that 9 judges stole a right from the sovereign States.

But you just sit there and take it!! You think you have no recourse. Do you really believe that these 9 judges know better how to interpret the Constitution than those who actually wrote it?? Or have you believed the lie that the Constitution is a "living breathing document" that can be interpreted to fit changing times?

Do you really believe that gays have a right to marry under the 14th Amendment? Why did it take us 160 years to figure that out?

Do you really believe that States requiring photo ID's to vote is unconstitutional?

Do you really believe that States denying welfare to illegal aliens is unconstitutional?

Right now the City of San Francisco allows public nudity. Groups are suing right now to allow this right nation wide under the 14th amendment. Do you really believe that the 14th Amendment protects such a thing?

We sit by year after year and take this garbage from liberal courts and WHY? Where are the governors who will simply ignore these rulings and dare the Federal Government to do anything about it? If just ONE brave governor would take a stand you would see literally tens of thousands of patriots flocking to his side preventing Federal marshals from intervening or arresting such a governor.

These judges are no longer interpreting the Constitution. Rather they are legislating from the bench and using their positions to actually undermine the Constitution. We DO NOT have to take this!!

We do not have to bow to a lawless President and we do not have to obey lawless judges. But if you think any of this can be resolved without civil disobedience you are dreaming. These judges are going to have to be scared off the bench. They are going to have to see angry mobs surrounding their offices and homes. They are going to have to see the fury of the American people starring them right in the eye. NO I am NOT even remotely hinting and doing what Timothy McVeigh did. I'm talking about doing what our colonial ancestors did.

"No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier" (2 Tim. 2:4).

How does your expressed position align with Paul's instructions to Timothy?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Lafon

"No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier" (2 Tim. 2:4).

How does your expressed position align with Paul's instructions to Timothy?

Brother, are you sure you are quoting that verse in context?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by n david

I agree. I apologize for muddling the subject here.

While I'm 100% for Christians being involved in civil government; I do not believe we should promote anarchy or insurrection. Get informed. Get organized. Get elected.

Was it wrong in 1776? And who is promoting anarchy and insurrection? The federal government is guilty of both as they defy the God given authority Romans 13 speaks of. Opposing that does not make us guilty of the same.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Brother, are you sure you are quoting that verse in context?

If not, then please, won't you enlighten me?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Lafon

If not, then please, won't you enlighten me?

Should we attend PTA meetings?

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Should we attend PTA meetings?

Seriously? I doubt that such a civic activity is the same as the type of activity the following statements would incite in many:

We do not have to bow to a lawless President and we do not have to obey lawless judges. But if you think any of this can be resolved without civil disobedience you are dreaming. These judges are going to have to be scared off the bench. They are going to have to see angry mobs surrounding their offices and homes. They are going to have to see the fury of the American people starring them right in the eye. NO I am NOT even remotely hinting and doing what Timothy McVeigh did. I'm talking about doing what our colonial ancestors did.

Do you truly believe that such activity as your statements imply are representative of an ambassador of Jesus Christ, whom "real" Christians are to be? As for me, I cannot even begin to imagine how such activities as you suggest would serve to emulate our Lord, but that's just how I see it. You're free to view it otherwise, and that you apparently do, therefore I disagree.

Nevertheless, you've yet to explain how I have taken out of context Paul's instructions to Timothy.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Lafon

Seriously? I doubt that such a civic activity is the same as the type of activity the following statements would incite in many:



Do you truly believe that such activity as your statements imply are representative of an ambassador of Jesus Christ, whom "real" Christians are to be? As for me, I cannot even begin to imagine how such activities as you suggest would serve to emulate our Lord, but that's just how I see it. You're free to view it otherwise, and that you apparently do, therefore I disagree.

Nevertheless, you've yet to explain how I have taken out of context Paul's instructions to Timothy.

I did not say violence should be used. I said civil disobedience. That means using every non-violent means possible to keep corrupt judges from performing their duties.

Let me ask you, was the American Revolution a sin? Was the civil rights movement wrong?

Are you entangling yourself in the affairs of this life by voting?

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I did not say violence should be used. I said civil disobedience. That means using every non-violent means possible to keep corrupt judges from performing their duties.

Let me ask you, was the American Revolution a sin? Was the civil rights movement wrong?

Are you entangling yourself in the affairs of this life by voting?

Are you Jewish? You know it has been said that a Jew always answers a question with a question, and that is what you're doing, hopefully not so you can avoid my question seeking an explanation of how I have taken Paul's instructions to Timothy out of their context.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, only seeking to have you recognize that the "civil disobedience" which you've suggested is not representative of a true disciple of Jesus Christ. If we're to emulate Him, then I just do not believe we should allow ourselves to become so involved in civil affairs.

Do I vote? Absolutely! That is NOT an act of "civil disobedience"! Rather its an action which represents a personal expression of a desire that those whom I believe best serve the interest of my fellows be chosen to do as they say they will do (which, does not always end up that way, of course).

We have been commanded to "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:2-3). That certainly doesn't seem to be an incitement to join in some type of "civil disobedience," as you propose.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm stating here .... I'm not your enemy, rather I'm only stating how I see things which just happens to differ in a significant manner from yours.

I would also like to add for your consideration Paul's statement to the Ephesians: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12).

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Are you saying the American Revolution was a sin?

I would not have participated.