A Picture of Grace from God's Point of View

[mfblume]

It's not a matter of anyone saying people are lost in some arrogant manner, but simply believing the bible for what it says. And to believe one needn't even believe the cross took place and maintain a possibility such an one is saved is not believing the bible, period. You're in the wrong book with that concept. Words have lost all meaning.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's not a matter of anyone saying people are lost in some arrogant manner, but simply believing the bible for what it says. And to believe one needn't even believe the cross took place and maintain a possibility such an one is saved is not believing the bible, period. You're in the wrong book with that concept. Words have lost all meaning.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's not a matter of anyone saying people are lost in some arrogant manner, but simply believing the bible for what it says. And to believe one needn't even believe the cross took place and maintain a possibility such an one is saved is not believing the bible, period. You're in the wrong book with that concept. Words have lost all meaning.

well, this is your opinion, but you stumble at other Scripture in order to make it true. We don't really have a very good grasp of "saved" or "lost" anyway, do we, if we confidently assure people of their salvation after ten minutes at the altar, as long as they adopt our lexicon.

If you want to simply believe what the Bible says, why evince shock and dismay at Scripture that is more profound, and inclusive, than your later Pauline quotes? This "simply believe what the Bible says" always means "let me interpret the Bible for you," as we all see that the Bible is not as definitive as many might have it be; it is meant to divide. When i hear some neo say that the Bible has no contradictions, i just laugh, quietly. It is a Book of contradictions. I could show that you are lost the same way, which would only reveal the state of my heart, not yours.

Also please note that i never said anyone was saved, either. What i said was that anyone who believes that they can disqualify anyone else from salvation based upon their stated beliefs has fallen into a trap, and revealed their heart. Their little child has gone missing.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, this is your opinion, but you stumble at other Scripture in order to make it true.

Not true.

We don't really have a very good grasp of "saved" or "lost" anyway, do we, if we confidently assure people of their salvation after ten minutes at the altar, as long as they adopt our lexicon.

This was debunked weeks ago. Again, for the umpteenth time, one is only informed salvation is sure if the cross is applied to our lives and our hearts genuinely believe, despite what one may say. IT's the heart God sees and that's what people are informed about.

If you want to simply believe what the Bible says, why evince shock and dismay at Scripture that is more profound, and inclusive, than your later Pauline quotes?

Pauline quotes are part of the bible and none of them conflict with anything else the bible says.

This "simply believe what the Bible says" always means "let me interpret the Bible for you,"

Wrong.

as we all see that the Bible is not as definitive as many might have it be; it is meant to divide.

When it makes plain statements, those statements must be maintained.

When i hear some neo say that the Bible has no contradictions, i just laugh, quietly. It is a Book of contradictions.

That's what is said by folks who don't like parts of the bible.

I could show that you are lost the same way, which would only reveal the state of my heart, not yours.

You do not accept plain statements the bible makes and claim the bible is full of contradictions. So... I'm not too interested in such views.

Also please note that i never said anyone was saved, either. What i said was that anyone who believes that they can disqualify anyone else from salvation based upon their stated beliefs has fallen into a trap, and revealed their heart. Their little child has gone missing.

Cop-out. The bible plainly says the work of the cross is vital for salvation. So, those who deny it even occurred are lost... as per the Bible, not anyone else.

[shazeep]

Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

see, no witnessing, proselytizing, converting, confessing, baptizing, tongueing, or tithing required. People make those requirements, not Scripture.

[houston]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

see, no witnessing, proselytizing, converting, confessing, baptizing, tongueing, or tithing required. People make those requirements, not Scripture.

"Go ye therefore..."

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by houston

"Go ye therefore..."

hey, 2000 years ago that was the only way; no one had heard of Christ. I'm not denying that it is still valid today; but the Holy Spirit has quite obviously made a move, away from our churches, so maybe i am just suggesting to follow. Or to give other Scripture equal billing, lol--we love to hold to the Scriptures that empower us, and make us out to be the heads, and don't much like reading "become a little child" or "pick up your cross."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hey, 2000 years ago that was the only way; no one had heard of Christ. I'm not denying that it is still valid today; but the Holy Spirit has quite obviously made a move, away from our churches, so maybe i am just suggesting to follow. Or to give other Scripture equal billing, lol--we love to hold to the Scriptures that empower us, and make us out to be the heads, and don't much like reading "become a little child" or "pick up your cross."

You have an odd idea of what "churches" are. It matter snot what churches are. It matters what the word says. THE word stands forever. And regardless of what you or I think of church, the word still is in effect and another age has not come with another covenant since the cross.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You have an odd idea of what "churches" are. It matter snot what churches are. It matters what the word says. THE word stands forever. And regardless of what you or I think of church, the word still is in effect and another age has not come with another covenant since the cross.

hmm. well, 65 million Americans have left church, so perhaps it is our idea of church that is odd. As to the rest, i agree! There is no condemnation in those who are in Christ. Judge not, and you won't be judged. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. You will never get complaints from practicing the gifts of the Spirit. Apparently, that only happens if you are a Muslim or a Catholic

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

So you say; yet Christ made it plain that He did not come to judge.

Mike, it has become plain to me that you really don't know Christ at all; can i lead you to Him?

sir you don't even believe the bible. you've got a crossless bible.