Baptism for salvation questions

[Rico]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Many Trinitarians believe those who don't believe in the Trinity are lost. That view is considered harsh as well, I suppose.

Bob, I believe baptism in Jesus' name is for the remission of sins not because of the remission of sins. Jesus died to take away the sins of the world. If one is not baptized in his name, they are still in their sins. To not have one's sins remitted defeats the whole purpose of why Jesus came into the world.

How can I make that any more palatable for you? If I did try to sugar coat it I would be dishonest.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
Mark 16:16 (KJV)

Sister, you are right on the money.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Willy Jacks

can you show where any baptismal formula was actually use "in the name of Jesus," in the Bible?

You are kidding, right? Have you ever read the Book of Acts?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

that's just your assertion.

Jesus said on this rock I will build my church. The church he is speaking of is the church built on the rock. When it is built on the rock it is unmovable. That does not mean Jesus meant "There will be an unbroken chain of the church passed on from generation to generation and visible" etc etc...that's something Rome invented when it also invented Apostolic succession.

If this was true in the absolute sense, there should have still been churches of Jerusalem and other places that remained as they were in the first century to this day with NO false doctrine. IF this is true we should all have gone back and joined Rome and not argued with her over doctrine. There would have been a church like the modern Protestant, Trinitarian church, all through out history and not rather being recovered around the time of Luther. There never would be a Laodecian church in the bible that fell away.

Again, all this verse is stating very simply is that Christ's church would be the one that builds on the Rock. Any church that is NOT built on the rock would not prevail against the gates of hell.

That's far different from Christ saying "The gates of Hell will not prevail against my church"..so in context Jesus was not predicting His church would be a visible monolithic movement that continued to grow despite having false doctrines, starting wars, persecuting anyone that did not agree with them. selling indulgencies, having popes that were corrupt men (and women?).

That would mean "God is gonna have Himself a visible church organization no matter how corrupt and heretical they are"....

The church is the body of believers...they are believers in Him. The church is powerful so long as they rest in the Lord and not in man.

Good post.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Believer

This thread was not started for people to "Slam" on other people. Also, please re-read my thread, it said nothing about "trinitarians" or pushing their views.

Every thread you start is to slam Oneness Pentecostals. You ain't foolin anyone.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well there you have it. We don't need to repent to be saved. I never thought I would see or hear anyone say that. Most non-OPs I know of say you must repent to be saved

I am surprised that you are surprised. I guess this means I can go back to a barstool now, seeing as how I will always believe. If it wasn't such a twisted perversion of God's Word it would almost be funny. Amazing where the slippery slope can lead.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1 John 2:18-19 (KJV)

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That's pretty obvious. Can you answer my question though? How do we OBEY the gospel?

Don't you read? Just believe. That's it.

[Beard]

Yes, baptisms are plural in Hebrews 6:1,2. There is baptism in water and baptism in the Holy Ghost; you must be born of the water of of the Spirit which are not synanymous, but two distinct baptisms. This is basic 101 teaching in apostolic doctrine. Hebrews 6:1,2 also speaks of the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God. Notice that faith is not alone in the principles of Christ. Faith is not mental assent to truth; it is the substance of the things of truth, it is the evidence of the things of good and truth. This is exactly the reason that many will stand outside after being cast away stating that they did many wonderful works, prophesied, and cast out devils in His name and will not be able to enter into the kingdom of heaven; because they did not do the will of God. Doing the will of God is not of one's works of the flesh, but following the leading of the Holy Ghost in doing the will of God.

To believe in thine heart the Lord (Jehovah) Jesus is not a confession of the mouth, but of the heart. Man believes with the heart, not the head. For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Jesus stated the same truth when he spoke that they draw close to me with their mouth, but their hearts were far from him. There is a vast difference in speaking something with the mouth and believing with the heart. "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." (Matthew 15:8). Again, the heart must be circumcised in order for a person to believe with the heart which is by baptism in his name.

One must understand that faith is not simply speaking something with the mouth, it is the heart that believes unto salvation. A believer is someone who trusts in, adheres to, and does the will of God. It is not enough to speak by faith to say one is a believer, for his conversation will prove that he/she is not a believer, for a believer does what is in his heart being single minded. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways, for his mind has knowledge to do one thing, yet he does something else in works. The works of the law and doing the will of God are two different things. Consider this: "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16). There is a vast difference in doing one's own works, being led of self will; and doing the works that accompany salvation; that is, works that accompany faith in truly being a believer (one that is not just a hearer of the Word, but a doer as well...this is a true believer).

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So then repentance is a separate thing from the gospel yet we have to do it anyways to be saved. Is that correct?

The Hebrews saw repentance as a returning to God in faith. Yes, we must turn back to God through faith in Christ to be saved.

True repentance can only take place when the Gospel has been presented because the Gospel gives the repenting heart the object of faith to which to turn (Acts 19:4). The Gospel makes full repentance possible because it provides the way back to God which is Christ. Though the Gospel is needed for proper repentance, the Gospel is separate and distinct from repentance.

Is obedience inseparable from faith and or repentance?

We're to repent and have faith in the Gospel (Mark 1:15, Acts 20:20-21, Hebrews 6:1). To have faith in the Gospel is to obey the Gospel (Romans 10:16). Having faith in the Gospel is, in and of itself, the obedience of (or "to the") faith (Acts 6:7, Romans 1:5, Romans 16:25-26). Since faith (or the obedience of faith in the Gospel) is required for repentance then this "obedience" is inseparable from repentance.

While the Gospel is separate and distinct from repentance, obedience to the Gospel in not. Repentance and faith (obedience to the Gospel) come in response to hearing the Gospel (Romans 10:17).

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That's pretty obvious. Can you answer my question though? How do we OBEY the gospel?

Who obeys the Gospel; the saved or the unsaved? Obedience isn't a one time thing, its a life change that starts in the heart. Unsaved people don't obey the Gospel, there isn't need for them to. Repentance is not a one time thing, its also on going. Salavation is a one time thing.

Jesus said, if you love Me you will obey My commandments. Obeying Jesus, and being obedient is to him is loving Him. Jesus is speaking to those that are already saved.

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Originally Posted by Rico

You are kidding, right? Have you ever read the Book of Acts?

Yes, I have read and studied Acts probably more than most. I also understand
the rules of Biblical Hermeneutics when it comes to Historical Narratives, which the book of Acts is. But we won't go there.