More on Skirts

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree with you. However, since these people are convinced that bifurcated garments are an "abomination" based on Deuteronomy 22:5... it can't be circumstantial or a matter of conviction. It would be an abomination to wear bifurcated garments regardless as to if they are worn in public or private. This is yet another example of how misapplying Deuteronomy 22:5 spills over into condemning things it was never designed to condemn unless it is exegeted accurately.

If they argue that bifurcated garments are an "abomination" based on Deuteronomy 22:5, they have to condemn any bedroom attire and pajamas that are bifurcated. They can't say that an "abomination" is okay as long as it is worn in private. lol

They have to condemn what people wear to bed?????

They can't say that an "abomination" is okay as long as it is worn in private??????

I have never in my life heard of a preacher preach on lingerie in bed. Pants are pants I agree, but I think I will let people deal with this one without my help.

[good samaritan]

EB, made a good point that if the person's intent is all that made cross dressing wrong, then if the intent was changed cross dressing would be o.k. I would like to say that the majority of women that wear pants don't have that wrong intent. Most women that wear pants do for more practical purposes and cultural relevance. But, do people not see that pants have gained popularity in a season of moral and spiritual decline.

It is the little foxes that spoil the vines. At the beginning of the 20th century, our country was considered a Christian nation. American culture may not have been perfect, but Christianity was what we were in some flavor or another. We have seen prayer banned in schools while handing out contraceptives. The industrial age introduced our mothers into a workplace that was not acceptable in generations before.

Mothers have left their families in trust to daycare and school systems for more money. People have more today than they did back then. More cars, bigger houses, technology, more and nicer clothes...... We have forsaken the fountain of living water for cisterns that can hold no water.

People can keep excusing behavior for cultural relevance, but all the while, our culture stinks in the nostrils of God. I am not saying that a woman well go to hell over pants, but I will also not tell a woman that she is o.k. either. Jeff Arnold preached a sermon a while back that the title has stuck with me, "The thing that matters most, we must please God". Where is God ranked in our list of people to please.

People don't seem to even care if they please God. We can argue back and forth on if De 22:5 applies to ladies in jeans. Yes, to me it does, but the question is what is shaping our interpretation. Are we allowing culture to interpret the scripture or are we truly seeking what is God's desire.

If culture makes a move that is moral or godly we should join, but if culture makes a move that is ungodly or questionable then we should stay where we are. When ladies began wearing pants was that something we think that raised the spiritual bar?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

EB, made a good point that if the person's intent is all that made cross dressing wrong, then if the intent was changed cross dressing would be o.k. I would like to say that the majority of women that wear pants don't have that wrong intent. Most women that wear pants do for more practical purposes and cultural relevance. But, do people not see that pants have gained popularity in a season of moral and spiritual decline.

It is the little foxes that spoil the vines. At the beginning of the 20th century, our country was considered a Christian nation. American culture may not have been perfect, but Christianity was what we were in some flavor or another. We have seen prayer banned in schools while handing out contraceptives. The industrial age introduced our mothers into a workplace that was not acceptable in generations before.

Mothers have left their families in trust to daycare and school systems for more money. People have more today than they did back then. More cars, bigger houses, technology, more and nicer clothes...... We have forsaken the fountain of living water for cisterns that can hold no water.

People can keep excusing behavior for cultural relevance, but all the while, our culture stinks in the nostrils of God. I am not saying that a woman well go to hell over pants, but I will also not tell a woman that she is o.k. either. Jeff Arnold preached a sermon a while back that the title has stuck with me, "The thing that matters most, we must please God". Where is God ranked in our list of people to please.

People don't seem to even care if they please God. We can argue back and forth on if De 22:5 applies to ladies in jeans. Yes, to me it does, but the question is what is shaping our interpretation. Are we allowing culture to interpret the scripture or are we truly seeking what is God's desire.

If culture makes a move that is moral or godly we should join, but if culture makes a move that is ungodly or questionable then we should stay where we are. When ladies began wearing pants was that something we think that raised the spiritual bar?

Most commentators I've read on Deuteronomy don't explain it as addressing normal every day attire, and most wrote their commentaries on the meaning of Deuteronomy 22:5 before women's' pants became popular.

Plus, I think we often romanticize the "good ol' days", you know, back when grandpa beat grandma or slapped her if she were out of line and no one thought it was an issue. Incest and molestation was far more common in families. Drinking was rarely even mentioned... even if dad drank himself silly every night.

Things were not perfect back then. But the image of perfection was rather important. I believe most of what is in the open today was with us then, there was just more discretion. They hid it better.

As for the church, yes, I can see the church's influence dropping. People are abandoning it. I believe it is because churches are becoming increasingly less relevant to their lives. In addition, the religious political agenda of the church isn't something a lot of people agree with.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I never said that sin did not exsist before the 20th century, but if you are suggesting our country is growing closer to God I don't know what to say.

It had nothing to do with the an image of perfection, but just plain shame. I was a shame for some of the things people do today to be done back then. You are right people were ashamed back then to do publicly what they do today. You say it as if it is a good thing that we have culture that displays their sins as if they are proud of it. Sin should be repented of not heralded.

Mt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The world is getting worse.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The world is getting worse.

I agree. But it isn't getting worse because of pants. lol

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree. But it isn't getting worse because of pants. lol

As has been said, "pants are the symptom and not the disease"

[good samaritan]

Pentecostal ladies are made to feel homely and plain and that people feel sorry for them. Even if that Pentecostal lady is minding her own business other women snurl up their nose. People can say all day long what they want about pants on a woman, but I know from personal witness accounts that ladies are abused for choosing to wear skirts. My wife was tormented through school for her beliefs and by the time most kids get out of our good ole public school system they have been so shamed about the way they dressed they change their stance. Most of the women that I know who struggle with pants is because of this. I would never want to compromise to just to fit in with a crowd of people who truly hate me.

If you have not grown up OP then this is a side that many haven't seen.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Pentecostal ladies are made to feel homely and plain and that people feel sorry for them. Even if that Pentecostal lady is minding her own business other women snurl up their nose. People can say all day long what they want about pants on a woman, but I know from personal witness accounts that ladies are abused for choosing to wear skirts. My wife was tormented through school for her beliefs and by the time most kids get out of our good ole public school system they have been so shamed about the way they dressed they change their stance. Most of the women that I know who struggle with pants is because of this. I would never want to compromise to just to fit in with a crowd of people who truly hate me.

If you have not grown up OP then this is a side that many haven't seen.

I can sympathize with this point. I have much respect for pastors who admonish women to wear skirts and dresses because they feel they better reflect Christian modesty. And I have much respect for women who have struggled to maintain that level of modesty in the face of social opposition. And, I'd encourage that if that is how they feel and if that is what their pastor has admonished them to do, that they not give in and surrender that modesty standard.

However, I have to differ with those who use Deuteronomy 22:5 is about pants... and then turn to call women wearing pants an abomination. That's twisting Scripture and being abusive. None of the Israelites wore pants as part of their common attire when it was written. Even among the Levites, the breeches were to be worn when officiating in the tabernacle. They didn't just hang out all day in their priestly garments and breeches down at the gate.

[Aquila]

Attached is an example of the Levitical breeches, which were worn as an under garment when the priests were officiating at the altar. They weren't pants, and they weren't common attire. They had to cover their "nakedness". Which is essentially the thighs and groin. They were essentially shorts worn under their robes.

No "pants" were among the Israelites. Nor were any "pants" worn as common every day attire.

[Aquila]

Here's an example of the "trousers" that were common in ancient Babylon. They were big and flowy. lol