Should we teach others to rebel against standards?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

So in churches today, perhaps the platform seats are the “prestigious” seats, and the seats otherwise not on the platform, are the cheap seats.

You're free to interpret it that way. I don't believe it's correct.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

It seems to me that someone (otherwise known as nDavid) mentioned someone playing the saxophone ON THE PLATFORM (possibly Bill Clinton?) at a UPC camp meeting.

Am I remembering correctly?

No, that was not me. I don't believe BC ever played his sax on the platform at a camp meeting. I could be wrong. I remember someone claim he played at POA in Alexandria, but I don't know whether that is true or not.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Hometown Guy says that has never happened? Hometown Guy is wrong. It DID happen.

Why ask if you know it did happen. How do you know it happened?

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

And, this is what James is talking about, as well as similar things. If you doubt me, read chapter one.

Chapter One has nothing regarding the text being discussed here.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

My point is that saying "Worldly businesses do X and everyone approves" is hardly a reason for the church doing the same thing.

I agree.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Bump for Nicodemus.

What is the meaning of doctrine?

A set of beliefs that are lived and taught.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

My point is that saying "Worldly businesses do X and everyone approves" is hardly a reason for the church doing the same thing. Kind of like this:

Mark 10:42-45 KJV
But Jesus called them to him , and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. [43] But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: [44] And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. [45] For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Businesses enforce a dress code because the boss says so and wants it that way. The Boss in the church is Jesus Christ. The elders aren't little bosses, they are servants of the membership (not of the non profit corporation). The Bible contains God's divinely ordained dress code. That includes a prohibition against marring the borders of a man's beard. The examples in Scripture are given to teach us the mind of God. And they show that a man being without a beard was a negative.

Businesses enforce a dress code because the boss says so and wants it that way. The Boss in the church is Jesus Christ. The elders aren't little bosses, they are servants of the membership (not of the non profit corporation). The Bible contains God's divinely ordained dress code. That includes a prohibition against marring the borders of a man's beard. The examples in Scripture are given to teach us the mind of God. And they show that a man being without a beard was a negative.

So, going with that mindset, does that mean every church in every state, in every country must operate the same way? Do you have personal preferences that others in your do not share?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Your trying to paint me in a corner is what your doing. You know full well we were discussing platform/leadership roles not just anyone that walks through the back door and you know full well that if James was writing his epistle ( to church members ) today he was referring to guest walking in the back door.

There is conversations that are good to learn, and for iron to sharpen iron. Others is better to walk away, its like a dripping faucet.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Businesses enforce a dress code because the boss says so and wants it that way. The Boss in the church is Jesus Christ. The elders aren't little bosses, they are servants of the membership (not of the non profit corporation). The Bible contains God's divinely ordained dress code. That includes a prohibition against marring the borders of a man's beard. The examples in Scripture are given to teach us the mind of God. And they show that a man being without a beard was a negative.

So, going with that mindset, does that mean every church in every state, in every country must operate the same way? Do you have personal preferences that others in your do not share?

With what mindset?

Every church should conform to the Scripture. Where the Bible doesn't specify something, that is up to the local assembly. For example, the Bible prescribes singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Therefore all churches are to do so. It does not specify when in the meeting that is to happen, how many songs, what tempo, melody, etc. Those things are up to the assembly.

This way, all apostolic churches can be on the same page, and yet express their indigenous culture and meet needs specific to that assembly.

Personal preferences are just that: personal preferences, and cannot bind the conscience of others. In other words, one's personal preferences cannot be promoted as the required way to worship God. Now, if you think your personal preference is the wisest and most expedient course of action, by all means persuade away. But that's different than claiming it is the will of God for ABC when ABC is not Scripture. THAT is dangerous territory, and introduces vain worship which God rejects:

Mark 7:6-8 KJV
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. [7] Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. [8] For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I agree.

Exodus 19:8
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.


Exodus 20:19
And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

The title of this thread is, should we teach others to rebel against standards. If you dont agree with the standards of that assembly go somewhere else. We shouldn’t teach others to rebel against standards. The Pastor is in authority of that assembly, this talk of seats on the platform or seats on the floor, SMH. If the Pastor says no cell phones, Sandals, beards or facial hair you dont do it. It may be old school, we call that obedience, not to the man, to the office. If you like your beard, you can keep it but you will not be in leadership roles. If your a women and want to have a split in the skirt or skirts that come to the knee your in the pew and not in leadership role, if your Pastors preaches it that way.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

With what mindset?

Every church should conform to the Scripture. Where the Bible doesn't specify something, that is up to the local assembly. For example, the Bible prescribes singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Therefore all churches are to do so. It does not specify when in the meeting that is to happen, how many songs, what tempo, melody, etc. Those things are up to the assembly.

This way, all apostolic churches can be on the same page, and yet express their indigenous culture and meet needs specific to that assembly.

Personal preferences are just that: personal preferences, and cannot bind the conscience of others. In other words, one's personal preferences cannot be promoted as the required way to worship God. Now, if you think your personal preference is the wisest and most expedient course of action, by all means persuade away. But that's different than claiming it is the will of God for ABC when ABC is not Scripture. THAT is dangerous territory, and introduces vain worship which God rejects:

Mark 7:6-8 KJV
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. [7] Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. [8] For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

I agree, I guess I thought you were meaning something else.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Who said Jesus had a beard? Are you going to walk around in the same type of clothes they wore back then?

In Lev. 21:5 we read:

They shall not make any bald place on their heads nor shall they SHAVE THE EDGES OF THEIR BEARDS nor make any cuttings in their flesh.

Did Jesus keep this command?

It would SEEM YHWH had no thought about how rebellious a beard might make a man.

But......modern Apostolic preachers saw it!

God never said it was sin but rather it pleased him. Modern preachers just ran out of things to preach against so they just made it up!

Makes you wonder how he feels about preachers who think they are more discerning of hearts than he?

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Exodus 19:8
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.


Exodus 20:19
And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

The title of this thread is, should we teach others to rebel against standards. If you dont agree with the standards of that assembly go somewhere else. We shouldn’t teach others to rebel against standards. The Pastor is in authority of that assembly, this talk of seats on the platform or seats on the floor, SMH. If the Pastor says no cell phones, Sandals, beards or facial hair you dont do it. It may be old school, we call that obedience, not to the man, to the office. If you like your beard, you can keep it but you will not be in leadership roles. If your a women and want to have a split in the skirt or skirts that come to the knee your in the pew and not in leadership role, if your Pastors preaches it that way.

the pastor is not Moses. Today we ALL have the same access to God.