If you think our educational institutions are "the foundation for generational Apostolicdom," then we are nowhere near the same page.
The local church is the foundation. God ordained that, not Bible Schools.
And if the benchmark for "wisdom" is agreeing with your position on tv advertising, etc. then your definition is pretty simplistic.
Furthermore, the supernatural gift you are referring to is called "the word of wisdom," which is not the same as wisdom in the context of James' writings regarding the wisdom from above vs. that which is earthly, sensual, and devilish. And yes, that takes some time to develop.
The word of wisdom is situation specific, as I understand it. Wisdom, generally speaking, as a characteristic and a character trait is something that comes through time, teaching, observation, and experience.
I agree its a little broad; so you are saying as an organization we shouldn't demand a higher standard for our graduates? Headquarters shouldn't train, develop and teach the pastors?
The Southern Baptist movement has strict guidelines. Their schools are accountable. Churning out professional pastors. Their not perfect, but look at what they have accomplished?
You are comparing apples and pinto beans. We should indeed have better Bible Schools, and I am sure not against them. I have a close friend whom I have tremendous respect for as a man of God who is a dean at what I consider our best Bible School.
But the Baptists turn out professonal Baptist pastors. Professionalism is a good thing, but that in itself won't turn out an Apostolic preacher. There is a little more to it than what you can learn in a classroom.
You can't compare us to them, as we are in completely different realms. We are in the Kingdom of God; they aren't.
They can do what they do without God being anywhere in the picture; we can't.
Are there things we can learn from them? Sure. Jesus said the children of the world are wiser in some areas than the children of light.
But trying to replicate their stuff would be akin to david thinking he could out-cart the Philistines when it came to Ark moving.
QUOTE=staysharp;327940]Here we go again...more assumptions! Jumping the gun. You UC's are famous for this.
No what we have here is an ignorant response that seeks to place blame and refuses to take responsibility. Coon, the foundation for generational Apostolicdom is our educational institutions. Why shouldn't we question what is being produced?[/QUOTE[
A typical response from an insecure UC. Anytime anyone asks sincere honest questions, you guys shift the blame, act like it isn't happening, ignore it and attack the one asking the questions. Why can't you just admit you have areas of ignorance too? I do, you do, we all do. Ignorance is simply uneducated in a particular area of study.
i am a pastor, preacher, teacher, etc. When it comes to nuclear fusion, I am ignorant. However, i am not a nuclear scientist, I am a pastor and as such, I should not be ignorant in any scope of study relating to my field. I should learn, grow, study to show myself approved, until I die and write what I have learned for the future generations.
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Again, shift the blame, get defensive and refuse to answer honestly.
Well, I agree in part, however are you denying the supernatural impartation of the gifts of the Spirit? Is the word of wisdom a gift of the H.G. Are you saying it takes years for this gift to develop?
HALLELUJAH!!!
No one is saying salvation instantly brings perfection. I am asking a legitimate question that deserves a legitimate response from you. I am simply stating that Apostolics claim to have superior revelations. If that is true, then why don't we have greater wisdom.
Most UC's believe everyone else who doesn't follow Acts 2:38 is hell bound. If that is the case, then why don't you have greater wisdom to help everyone else get out of hell?
Why are these men arguing over TV and its merit as a vehicle to carry the gospel? They should be parading their wisdom to the lost and preaching on it!
You cannot get any more ignorant than to argue TV vs. Internet the way they have defended their position. TV for entertainment, Internet for education? C'mon, this supercedes ignorance.
And then get mad and leave because they didn't get their way? Childish, ignorant behavior.
Now, I know why I started this thread, you are the perfect example, the poster child of its content.
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]A couple of other points--I am not what most would consider an Ultra Con.
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Most UC's believe everyone else who doesn't follow Acts 2:38 is hell bound.
That is Apostolic doctrine, not an ultra-con distinctive. There is no other entrance into the Kingdom than the New Birth.
If you think our educational institutions are "the foundation for generational Apostolicdom," then we are nowhere near the same page.
The local church is the foundation. God ordained that, not Bible Schools.
Many local churches have schools and should. A bible school can be a local church. Any institution that teaches is a school. Again, shift the blame.
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And if the benchmark for "wisdom" is agreeing with your position on tv advertising, etc. then your definition is pretty simplistic.
As it should be Coon, if men can't find common ground on such a simplistic platform, how are we going to reach a world? This to me shows the height of ignorance in men who are unwilling to consider others may be right.
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Furthermore, the supernatural gift you are referring to is called "the word of wisdom," which is not the same as wisdom in the context of James' writings regarding the wisdom from above vs. that which is earthly, sensual, and devilish. And yes, that takes some time to develop.
Either wisdom comes from God or it doesn't I agree earthly or sensual understanding is developmental, however I am asking about H.G. filled men of God and why the supernatural gift of wisdom does not seem to be in operation.
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The word of wisdom is situation specific, as I understand it.
I have no problem with that statement, but you and I should agree there has been many 'situations' it should of been applied.
If we are so wise, then why are we so dumb? I'm not throwing stones Coon, I'm including myself. Shouldn't there be more wisdom from above?
You are comparing apples and pinto beans. We should indeed have better Bible Schools, and I am sure not against them. I have a close friend whom I have tremendous respect for as a man of God who is a dean at what I consider our best Bible School.
But the Baptists turn out professonal Baptist pastors. Professionalism is a good thing, but that in itself won't turn out an Apostolic preacher. There is a little more to it than what you can learn in a classroom.
You can't compare us to them, as we are in completely different realms. We are in the Kingdom of God; they aren't.
They can do what they do without God being anywhere in the picture; we can't.
Are there things we can learn from them? Sure. Jesus said the children of the world are wiser in some areas than the children of light.
But trying to replicate their stuff would be akin to david thinking he could out-cart the Philistines when it came to Ark moving.
What part don't you agree with? You are still Apostolic aren't you? Perhaps you are more of universalist and believe doctrine does not matter?
I know I know... Pharisaical Self Righteous judges who don't believe that everyone who utters the name of Jesus are saved. Just overlook us in our ignorance oh wise one.
Surely, as a man who has the audacity to start a thread of this nature, you must be submitted to the Holy Ghost and ALL KNOWING and ALL WISE!
Please continue with your propositions and continue to wow us with the breadth and depth of your astounding wisdom!
I bow before you!
Again, you need to get your UCdar fixed. You are picking up all kinds of false signals with that faulty device you are using called by some a brain!
Could it be said that the saving of a soul is the miracle of the moment,
But the making of a mature saint is the work of a lifetime??
I don't consider myself to be all that wise. I do consider Sis Falla to be very much so. I can witness from two forums, when she types something, it is way worth reading and heeding.
Many local churches have schools and should. A bible school can be a local church. Any institution that teaches is a school. Again, shift the blame.
As it should be Coon, if men can't find common ground on such a simplistic platform, how are we going to reach a world? This to me shows the height of ignorance in men who are unwilling to consider others may be right.
Either wisdom comes from God or it doesn't I agree earthly or sensual understanding is developmental, however I am asking about H.G. filled men of God and why the supernatural gift of wisdom does not seem to be in operation.
I have no problem with that statement, but you and I should agree there has been many 'situations' it should of been applied.
If we are so wise, then why are we so dumb? I'm not throwing stones Coon, I'm including myself. Shouldn't there be more wisdom from above?
How is pointing out that God ordained local churches and not organization institutions of education shifting the blame?
If men aren't being developed properly, the blame is on the ministry, specifically pastors, of which I am one. Bible schools are in my opinion a stopgap measure that is regrettably filling a need because pastors aren't mentoring as they should. They are a bandaid but not the ideal solution.
You can have ten thousand instructors, but the real need is fathers.
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Either wisdom comes from God or it doesn't I agree earthly or sensual understanding is developmental, however I am asking about H.G. filled men of God and why the supernatural gift of wisdom does not seem to be in operation.
You keep failing to acknowledge the dichotomy between the gift of the word of wisdom, and the wisdom from above that James talks about.
Every believer should have wisdom--from God, His Word, and His imparted nature, and from experience.
This is not the same thing as the supernatral gift Paul references in I Corinthians 12.
And again, your judgment that anyone who is against tv ministry is dumb and ignorant is incredibly arrogant and simplistic. That in itself is no litmus test.
There are men with a lot of wisdom, good minds and good hearts on both sides of that issue.
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