Revoked Baptism?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Well I was totally blown away. I have NEVER heard anything like this being done.

It seems to me that one does not possess the power over sin they need until they have received the Holy Ghost and most people repent and are baptized before they receive the Holy Ghost... Seems to me like the boy is in a catch 22.

It may not sound like it but I am open to hear some good reaoning on this but so far I can't see where this is a good thing.

The carnal mind is enmity against God... granted... It is not subject to the law of God... again... granted... but... neither indeed can it be.

The unregenerated mind cannot be subject to the law of God. It takes a new birth... to me at least.

I would definitely like to hear some additional thoughts on this.

If that is true then HOW can someone possibly repent? What you are saying essentially is that someone can't repent of their sins until they receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. John the baptist said to bring forth fruit. Jesus said "Go and sin no more"...he never said "Just hold on till pentecost, don't worry that you are still shacking up with someone that is not your husband"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I also do not know the whole situation...

What I have told you is all he told me.

But... when people live together... people occupy the same house. This means that they either need to get married right away or they need to find other housing.

Finding additional housing takes time and they can sometimes find themselves in a situation where finding housing they can afford with one income rather than the 2 incomes they are accustomed to can be difficult.

What if they agreed to no longer have marital relationship?

If a man has a girlfriend but they do not live together would you question him on the level of their relationship before baptizing him?

They've been living like married people...get married! Or move in with one of the brothers temporarily or rent a room...There are solutions

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

So, for those of us that still believe pants on a woman are wrong........do we make them get rid of their pants before we baptize them??????

I believe pants on a woman are for sure a sin....I'm not opening this up to be a questions of standards...I am using this for an example and not for this to lead to a thread hijacking...... there are others threads to discuss the pants issue

How many women that believe wearing pants are wrong don't wear sweats at home or pajama bottoms when nobody else is around?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

Deu 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

again, this is not to argue standards your interpretation of scripture...But the bible says that women wearing man's garments , that it is an abomination... I think it is a valid comparison....

Then don't wear underwear...men were that. Don't wear socks...men where that. Don't wear shirts...men where that. Don't wear shoes...men where them. I guess the only thing women can wear is a dress and a bra (stockings count as socks)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by COOPER

What if they have been living together for years and have children?
Common law marriage .

It's not a declaration of commitment. They are not officially married. In other words they hold to the relationship they have because at any given time it would be easy to move on and find someone else...rather than going through a divorce, which is why a lot of people are just boyfriend and girlfriend today

[tv1a]

There is no scriptural mandate to refuse baptism... John's baptism was different than the New Testament baptism.

The lack of logic baffles me. How far do we take this "no sin" before baptism rule? Is it only for the sins we can see with our own eyes? Why not refuse to baptize someone because they gossip? Do you make the drug addict or alcoholic clean up his/her act before baptism? Baptism is not validating someone's lifestyle.

I know a jerk of a preacher who refused to baptize a young person, becaue in his words the boy did not express the "joy of the Holy Ghost" when he was filled with the Spirit. That young man committed suicide a few years later.

Anyone who refuses to baptize a person is careless with a person's soul. If they see the need for baptism, they have the right to be baptized.

[tv1a]

I feel like I am beating a dead horse, but people get the Holy Ghost without "repenting". The biblical definition of repenting has been distorted to the point where it has become a tool for the self righteous to judge others spirituality.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If that is true then HOW can someone possibly repent? What you are saying essentially is that someone can't repent of their sins until they receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. John the baptist said to bring forth fruit. Jesus said "Go and sin no more"...he never said "Just hold on till pentecost, don't worry that you are still shacking up with someone that is not your husband"

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

They've been living like married people...get married! Or move in with one of the brothers temporarily or rent a room...There are solutions

I keep asking...

What is the biblican requirement to be deemed "married".

And I'm not talking about jewish tradition either... much of that came from Babylon.

Biblically speaking... what is required of us to be deemed as married?

Are you saying... fulfill our traditional requirements so we (the people glaring at you right now as we decide whether or not you are worthy of baptism) can be placated?

What biblical demand do we need to see satisfied? This is an honest question and it has been asked several times. People keep saying "they need to get married"... agreed... but biblically speaking (therefore speaking from the mouth of God) what is required by God so that they may be deemed as married?

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by tv1a

There is no scriptural mandate to refuse baptism... John's baptism was different than the New Testament baptism.

The lack of logic baffles me. How far do we take this "no sin" before baptism rule? Is it only for the sins we can see with our own eyes? Why not refuse to baptize someone because they gossip? Do you make the drug addict or alcoholic clean up his/her act before baptism? Baptism is not validating someone's lifestyle.

I know a jerk of a preacher who refused to baptize a young person, becaue in his words the boy did not express the "joy of the Holy Ghost" when he was filled with the Spirit. That young man committed suicide a few years later.

Anyone who refuses to baptize a person is careless with a person's soul. If they see the need for baptism, they have the right to be baptized.

it's between them and God ...who are we to judge them... Thank you.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Then don't wear underwear...men were that. Don't wear socks...men where that. Don't wear shirts...men where that. Don't wear shoes...men where them. I guess the only thing women can wear is a dress and a bra (stockings count as socks)

First of Prax,... you need to go and read some of the first quotes I made. I wasn't turning this into a standards thing whether you think it is right or not for a woman to wear these things. MY POINT WAS to all those who DO feel it is wrong because of the scripture we use, (that scripture we use to show women they don't wear those things froma man because it is an abomination,) do we make them get rid of them before we baptise them... This wasn't about whether it is right or wrong as far as what some deem standards... So don't jump down my throat when you are not understanding what I am saying....

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How many women that believe wearing pants are wrong don't wear sweats at home or pajama bottoms when nobody else is around?

What people do in their home is their business...and NO I DON"T wear them when no one is looking!

Originally Posted by tv1a

There is no scriptural mandate to refuse baptism... John's baptism was different than the New Testament baptism.

The lack of logic baffles me. How far do we take this "no sin" before baptism rule? Is it only for the sins we can see with our own eyes? Why not refuse to baptize someone because they gossip? Do you make the drug addict or alcoholic clean up his/her act before baptism? Baptism is not validating someone's lifestyle.

I know a jerk of a preacher who refused to baptize a young person, becaue in his words the boy did not express the "joy of the Holy Ghost" when he was filled with the Spirit. That young man committed suicide a few years later.

Anyone who refuses to baptize a person is careless with a person's soul. If they see the need for baptism, they have the right to be baptized.

But there needs to be repentance first. There is no basis for baptizing someone if he has not repented of his sins.