Grace Verse Legalism

[mfblume]

John Gill gave quite a balanced understanding of 1 Tim 2:9:

Not with broidered hair, or plaited, as in 1Pe_3:3; see Gill on 1Pe_3:3. The Jews had women on purpose for this business; Mary Magdalene is thought to have her name from hence; See Gill on Mat_27:56.

Or gold, or pearls, or costly array: not that the apostle forbids all use or wear of such things by proper persons, whose circumstances would admit of it, and upon proper occasions, and at proper times: certain it is, that earrings and bracelets of gold, and jewels set in silver and gold, and raiment, costly raiment, were sent by Abraham, and given to Rebekah, and wore by her, who was a woman professing godliness so the church in Psa_45:9 though in figurative expressions, yet in allusion to what is literal, and honourable, and commendable, is said to be in gold of Ophir, and her clothing to be of wrought gold, and to be brought to the king in raiment of needlework: but however justifiable such a dress may be at other seasons, the apostle judged it very improper at the time of public prayer, or at the time of public worship; seeing it might swell the heart of the wearer with pride, so as to forget herself and the business she was come about, and draw the eyes of others upon her; and so cause a general inattention. It was a complaint of Chrysostom's many hundreds of years ago, that some who came to public worship, appeared in such a dress, as if they came rather to dance than to pray; such apparel should be avoided: it is said of Pythagoras (o), that he taught the inhabitants of Crotona, the men literature, and the women chastity and modesty; and by his disputations so far prevailed upon the latter, as to lay aside their garments of gold and other ornaments of their dignity, as instruments of luxury; all which they brought into the temple of Juno, and dedicated them to that goddess; declaring, that shamefacedness or chastity, and not garments, are the true ornaments of matrons.

Genesis 24:51-53 Behold, Rebekah is before thee, take her, and go, and let her be thy master's son's wife, as the LORD hath spoken. (52) And it came to pass, that, when Abraham's servant heard their words, he worshipped the LORD, bowing himself to the earth. (53) And the servant brought forth jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment, and gave them to Rebekah: he gave also to her brother and to her mother precious things.

It is not that one should never wear gold, since that would contradict all sorts of scriptures where God said he gave gold to Israel in Ezekiel 16, and Abraham gave jewelry and gold to Rebecca. It is when a person's world is such things that it becomes wrong.

Ezekiel 16:11-13 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. (12) And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. (13) Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.

God would not do anything nor say anything remotely similar to something He forbids us to do.

So it is error to say people cannot wear any jewelry. It is the error that consistently would cause one to say one should always appear nude.

1 Peter 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

If people want to refrain that is certainly fine. Not all who refrain from this are legalists, but some are

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by mfblume

John Gill gave quite a balanced understanding of 1 Tim 2:9:





It is not that one should never wear gold, since that would contradict all sorts of scriptures where God said he gave gold to Israel in Ezekiel 16, and Abraham gave jewelry and gold to Rebecca. It is when a person's world is such things that it becomes wrong.



God would not do anything nor say anything remotely similar to something He forbids us to do.

So it is error to say people cannot wear any jewelry. It is the error that consistently would cause one to say one should always appear nude.



If people want to refrain that is certainly fine. Not all who refrain from this are legalists, but some are

Good post MFBlume ,thank you

As one who associated with the no weddinring group for over thirty years I find it baffling how blind the eyes can become thru the observance of our vain traditions and the inability of some men to admit they were wrong.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Good post MFBlume ,thank youAs one who associated with the no weddinring group for over thirty years I find it baffling how blind the eyes can become thru the observance of our vain traditions and the inability of some men to admit they were wrong.

I happened to be raised in a wedding ring church and now there is an abundance of jewelry. I do not admit I am wrong about wedding rings because I believe it is the only consistant stand there is on jewelry. ALL or NONE. Doesn't say not MUCH gold it saves NOR gold. I really am NOT trying to turn this into a standard thread though I mentioned it only for the sake of showing how can NT edicts be considered legalism of the law condemned in Galatians?

[freeatlast]

Not gonna argue wit ya Elder

BTW glad to see ya here...hope you are feeling better from when your back was giving you trouble.

[cliff d]

Question: Why is it that the hard line legalist is always quick to say..."Bless God, I'm not letting down my holiness standards!" Let me ask you, what holiness standards are you talking about? Your standard of the fruits of the spirit? your standard of forgiveness?
Your standards of compassion and pure thoughts?"

No, usually the term Holiness Standards to them means, we men don't have hair on our ears and we women have exposed pimples! But true holiness is more than a mass of split ends with a bow. Holiness is more about what you say, and how you act and think than simply what you wear. In fact, the terms holiness standard and old fashioned holiness are not found in the Bible. These often have become sectarian code phrases for dress codes that have little to do with Bible holiness. These are modern day indulgences--that
people use as a way to procure their salvation and find favor with God and man.
Instead of circumcision, Neo-Pharisees insist on unnecessary dress codes and rules being added to salvation. It's the same old Acts 15 syndrome.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by cliff d

Question: Why is it that the hard line legalist is always quick to say..."Bless God, I'm not letting down my holiness standards!" Let me ask you, what holiness standards are you talking about? Your standard of the fruits of the spirit? your standard of forgiveness?
Your standards of compassion and pure thoughts?"

No, usually the term Holiness Standards to them means, we men don't have hair on our ears and we women have exposed pimples! But true holiness is more than a mass of split ends with a bow. Holiness is more about what you say, and how you act and think than simply what you wear. In fact, the terms holiness standard and old fashioned holiness are not found in the Bible. These often have become sectarian code phrases for dress codes that have little to do with Bible holiness. These are modern day indulgences--that
people use as a way to procure their salvation and find favor with God and man.
Instead of circumcision, Neo-Pharisees insist on unnecessary dress codes and rules being added to salvation. It's the same old Acts 15 syndrome.

Agreed that isn't all there is to it, but it does affect every area of our lives including the clothes we wear!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Ron

Agreed that isn't all there is to it, but it does affect every area of our lives including the clothes we wear!

My good Canadian compatriot, why is it, though, that clothing is always emphasized the most and is the first thing folks think of when "holiness" is mentioned? Something is wrong when clothing is the first thing people think of when holiness is mentioned. Imagine reading all the verses in the bible that mention holiness, and think about clothes. I mean, think of it -- CLOTHING?

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by mfblume

My good Canadian compatriot, why is it, though, that clothing is always emphasized the most and is the first thing folks think of when "holiness" is mentioned? Something is wrong when clothing is the first thing people think of when holiness is mentioned. Imagine reading all the verses in the bible that mention holiness, and think about clothes. I mean, think of it -- CLOTHING?

That's exactly what we thought of when we read those verses. Holiness and the way you look were one and the same in my mind.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sherri

That's exactly what we thought of when we read those verses. Holiness and the way you look were one and the same in my mind.

Its really ridiculous, isn't it?

"Be ye holy, for I am holy." Okay, how do you dress, God?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by cliff d

Question: Why is it that the hard line legalist is always quick to say..."Bless God, I'm not letting down my holiness standards!" Let me ask you, what holiness standards are you talking about? Your standard of the fruits of the spirit? your standard of forgiveness?
Your standards of compassion and pure thoughts?"

No, usually the term Holiness Standards to them means, we men don't have hair on our ears and we women have exposed pimples! But true holiness is more than a mass of split ends with a bow. Holiness is more about what you say, and how you act and think than simply what you wear. In fact, the terms holiness standard and old fashioned holiness are not found in the Bible. These often have become sectarian code phrases for dress codes that have little to do with Bible holiness. These are modern day indulgences--that
people use as a way to procure their salvation and find favor with God and man.
Instead of circumcision, Neo-Pharisees insist on unnecessary dress codes and rules being added to salvation. It's the same old Acts 15 syndrome.

Well, here's some new terms to replace CC1's blue denium whales terminology.