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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #61  
Old 02-22-2007, 02:45 PM
LaGirl LaGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
Psychology is a worldly philosophy, yes. It is wicked simply because it is worldly.

The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. This is what makes psychology "worldly."
ha ha ha ha.......OKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY
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  #62  
Old 02-22-2007, 02:47 PM
LaGirl LaGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
Well, since I'm in between pastors right now (my former pastor resigned and we haven't brought in a new one yet)...

If a pastor is using psychology in his counseling, he is using a wicked worldly philosophy (actually, all worldly philosophies are wicked; so, try not to make anything out of my use of the word "wicked") and, thus, is committing treason against God.
if he is doing any form of counseling, i bet he is using psychology. like i said, he may not know he is...but he is. And by the way....it isnt a bad thing if he does use it.
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  #63  
Old 02-22-2007, 02:53 PM
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ReformedDave ReformedDave is offline
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Originally Posted by LaGirl View Post
ha ha ha ha.......OKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY
You must not understand(or probably care to) the origin of psychology. Chan is correct. The 'scientific' basis for it is in serious question.
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  #64  
Old 02-22-2007, 02:57 PM
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if he is doing any form of counseling, i bet he is using psychology. like i said, he may not know he is...but he is. And by the way....it isnt a bad thing if he does use it.
Biblical counseling is not psychology. Check out the writings of men like Jay Adams. A lady in my church is a former psychiatrist and left the field to practice Biblical counseling.

www.ibcd.org
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  #65  
Old 02-22-2007, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LaGirl View Post
if he is doing any form of counseling, i bet he is using psychology. like i said, he may not know he is...but he is. And by the way....it isnt a bad thing if he does use it.
But it is a bad thing. It's a bad thing because psychology is a worldly philosophy. There is nothing Christian about psychology and there never will be. There is no place for any worldly philosophy - whether psychology or gnosticism or taoism or the thoughts of various philosophers such as Plato, Nietzche, Ayn Rand, Bertrand Russell, etc. - in the Church.

Psychology is a subtle and widespread leaven in the Church. It has permeated the entire loaf and is stealthily starving the sheep. It promises far more than it can deliver and what it does deliver is not the food that nourishes. Yet multitudes of professing Christians view psychology with respect and awe.

Psychoanalysis was invented by Sigmund Freud (1856-1939). Though he has been dead for many years, the deadly poison of his bizarre theories has infected nearly every system of psychological counseling. Moreover, Freudian concepts and terms have so permeated our society that they are generally treated as facts about human nature.

For instance, numerous people refer to the id, ego, and superego as if these entities truly exist, as if they are well-defined compartments of the personality. They do not realize that Freudian concepts and terms were concocted in Freud’s own mind. But, that’s the way most psychological systems are formed. They are an attempt to define and explain the inner workings of all persons, but the psychological theorist ends up defining and explaining himself according to his own subjectivity.

That such a system for understanding mankind is flawed should be evident from the ever-increasing number of psychological theories that often contradict each other. Moreover, for the Christian, any such system should be seen as flawed because of the deceitfulness of the heart ("The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9). Because of the noetic effects of the fall, man’s view of himself will be flawed. Thus each person who creates a psychological theory to explain the human condition will have at best a flawed view of himself. But, when people attempt to explain human nature in a universal manner, they fail even more miserably unless they are guided by the Holy Spirit and find their understanding in Scripture.

Freud did not do that. In fact, Freud was adamantly opposed to Christianity. Freud taught that religious doctrines are all illusions and that religion is "the universal obsessional neurosis of humanity."

Psychotherapy, from its very beginning, created doubt about Christianity. Freud effectively eroded confidence in Christianity and established negative ideas concerning Christianity that prevail today. He negatively influenced the faith and affected the attitudes of many people concerning the role of the church in healing troubled souls.

Numerous psychoanalytic myths devised by Freud are imbedded in our culture. Many people believe them as if they are facts. The following statements are Freudian myths:

1. The id, ego, and superego are actual parts of the human psyche.
2. A person’s unconscious drives behavior more than his conscious mind chooses behavior.
3. Dreams are keys to understanding the unconscious and thus the person.
More myths:
4. Present behavior is determined by unresolved conflicts from childhood.
5. Many people are in denial because they have repressed unpleasant memories into the unconscious.
6. Parents are to blame for most people’s problems.
7. People need insight into their past to make significant changes in thoughts, attitudes and actions.
8. Children must successfully pass through their "psychosexual stages" of development or they will suffer from neurosis later on.
9. If I am to experience significant change, I must remember and re-experience painful incidents in my past.
10. The first five years of life determine what a person will be like when he grows up.
11. Everything that has ever happened to me is located in my unconscious mind.
12. People use unconscious defense mechanisms to cope with life.

Many of these Freudian myths permeate the thinking of numerous Christians and "Christian psychologists."

We are tremendously complex beings, but psychological explanations about the inner workings of the soul are merely speculation. The only accurate source of information about the heart, soul, mind, will, and emotions is the Bible. Not only is the Bible accurate; the Lord Himself knows and understands exactly what lies hidden beneath the surface of every person. He knows and He brings cleansing to those inner parts that we may never understand. David prayed:

"Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting" (Psalm 139:23-24).

Some books you might want to read:

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/ccmpccbk_online.html

http://www.psychologydebunked.com/

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/ctmbk_online.html

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/ECPbk_online.html

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/jdgbk_online.html

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/4tempbk_online.html

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/12stepsbk_online.html
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  #66  
Old 02-22-2007, 03:45 PM
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ReformedDave ReformedDave is offline
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You know, it's not just us wide-eyed 'scriptualist' that believe in the fallacy of psychology. There are some secular sources as well. Even if you don't believe at least consider the possibility that this is just bad science.



www.szasz.com
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  #67  
Old 02-22-2007, 03:56 PM
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sherr34 sherr34 is offline
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Chan,
I have a question for you. What if someone in you family was diagnosed with Bipolar would you look down them because the have to have medication to help make them stable. Bipolar is a Medical condition and a physical condition just like Diabetes, high blood pressure. Would you cut them down because they have to go to a Specialist to get the correct medication and help that they need to live a normal life. I would hope that you would try to understand where they are comming from.
I do know that people with this medical condition need to be talked to a certain way because if they are not,the person with BP will probably get very upset and do things they will regret later.
The reason why I know about BP is because I have it. And what do I do with it. I am apostolic, Holy Ghost filled and baptized in Jesus Name. I pray that God would heal me but if not I use it as a tool to reach others to the Lord.
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  #68  
Old 02-22-2007, 04:29 PM
Rhoni Rhoni is offline
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I thought I'd peak in...*quietly slipping out*
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  #69  
Old 02-22-2007, 04:40 PM
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Trouvere Trouvere is offline
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Originally Posted by sherr34 View Post
Chan,
I have a question for you. What if someone in you family was diagnosed with Bipolar would you look down them because the have to have medication to help make them stable. Bipolar is a Medical condition and a physical condition just like Diabetes, high blood pressure. Would you cut them down because they have to go to a Specialist to get the correct medication and help that they need to live a normal life. I would hope that you would try to understand where they are comming from.
I do know that people with this medical condition need to be talked to a certain way because if they are not,the person with BP will probably get very upset and do things they will regret later.
The reason why I know about BP is because I have it. And what do I do with it. I am apostolic, Holy Ghost filled and baptized in Jesus Name. I pray that God would heal me but if not I use it as a tool to reach others to the Lord.
Sister Sherr this person would be better off seeing a psychiatrist because they
would have a medical disorder.That is clearly not the field of a psycologist.Its a whole different thing.
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  #70  
Old 02-22-2007, 04:42 PM
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Trouvere Trouvere is offline
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Originally Posted by Trouvere View Post
There is counseling ministry available to all saints not just pastors for ministry if you feel called in this area you can be trained.You can check it out at
www.awpministries.org

BTW Brother Chan they also welcome men to the seminars.Its not just for women.
I think you would approve of the training and sources used.

Brother Chan did you miss my post to you?
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