Good evening visiting Pharisees, wolves and

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

I am not going to go through this entire thread, so, if someone else has already posted a response to the question, “What is sin?”, I apologize. However, here are a few thoughts for consideration:

Biblically defined sin is found in 1 John 3:4 (KJV), Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Companion verses of doctrine would include passages such as:

Romans 3:31 (KJV), Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Do away with the Law, then what is left? Grace? Romans 5:13 + (KJV) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law….

Without the Law, sin is undefined and neither is it imputed to man. Therefore, if there is no longer any law in affect, then after the resurrection of Jesus, there is no further need for Him. Does anyone actually believe that? I pray not!

There are a good many other verses (actually 'passages') that apply, and these few verses should be used only as study starters. However, therein lies the heart of the law and the defining of sin.

The problem is that so many preachers/teachers really do not actually know what sin is. That is because they have not studied the law (Torah, God’s instructions in righteousness) that Jesus and all of His apostles/disciples taught. They read a few letters that Paul wrote and think that they have it all. Want to ‘know’ what the other disciples taught? If they were true to their calling, and it seems from their reported deaths they were faithful, they taught what they were commanded to teach by Jesus Himself. See Matthew 28:19-20, another study starter passage (emphases is on verse 20).

So, what we find so frequently are teachers/preachers who expound on sin without either knowing what sin is (they can recite some examples) but they don't understand the spiritual/scriptural context or precepts within which these examples are to be understood and applied to the life of a disciple of Christ. The applicable verse here is: 1 Timothy 1:7 (KJV), Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

The expected results of this kind of surface teaching is exactly what we find in many churches of today: Oral laws generated by men to meet what they think are the sound spiritual needs within the fellowship of believers. That is, they take upon themselves the authority to tell the children of God what they think God considers to be a sin, according to their own understanding. Or, we are looking at religious sounding ideas that are generated in order to achieve some personal agenda.

To discover what Jesus thought of religious leaders who engage in such activities read Matthew 23. Yet, we know that to add to, remove from, or to otherwise alter/modify the word of God is another transgression of the 'Law' that many teachers will acknowledge should not take place, but are not deterred from practicing it themselves! See Deuteronomy 12:32 (KJV), What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

What we are left with are ‘leaders’ making up rules and defining sin as a list of particular actions (activities) or the failure to conform to some man-made standard of ‘holiness’, thinking that they are doing something that is pleasing to God. It seems that many continue to confuse a saint’s holiness with what he/she does, rather than who they are in Christ. A word study on the term 'holiness' in both the original Greek and Hebrew is in order here, not definitions found in an organizational manual.

Colossians 2:20 – 3:3 (KJV), Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh….

So while decrying the existence of the Law of God and the grace that makes observance of that Law possible, they are busy making up new laws, ordinances and statutes so as to appear spiritual, holy, and acceptable unto the Lord. This is done even as they chop up God’s law into bits and pieces that are personally acceptable, and calling that ‘good’.

Our God is a covenant God. We are now in covenant number seven of eight projected covenants. It is therefore necessary to study, know, and understand what is required from man in this seventh covenant that God has made with mankind. We all line up for the blessings, rights, and privileges of the covenant, but where is the understanding of what is required from us in order to fulfill our side of the covenant obligations? Covenants are two way conditional agreements. Most professing Christians have no clue as to what our covenant obligations are.

Anyway, Cindy, there are a few thoughts on what sin is, how it should be defined and how it fits into the New Covenant time frame. I hope this helps - and may your studies be fruitful.

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An added note: For a more complete understanding of how God envisioned the Law to be understood and implemented, see Matthew chapters 5, 6, & 7.

Thank you, I was just thinking today about the consequences of sin. And how my sins affected myself and others, including my family and friends. My sins are forgiven, but the consequences of my sins are still affecting my life as well as others. I do have a problem with guilt because of things I have done in the past. I am going to try to overcome that.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Rev

What you are saying would in deed be nice if it were true.

But of course it's not!

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(Heb 10:28) He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(Heb 10:29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(Heb 10:30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(Heb 10:31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

How does this negate what I said? I didn't say you can sin without repentance and be saved, but I did say that even if your a sinner God still loves you, no matter how bad a sinner you are.

The problem with you, and many like you is you can only see God through judgment colored glasses.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

How does this negate what I said? I didn't say you can sin without repentance and be saved, but I did say that even if your a sinner God still loves you, no matter how bad a sinner you are.

The problem with you, and many like you is you can only see God through judgment colored glasses.

what does "Repentance" mean? If a person sins once, because they were weak, do they need to repent all over again?

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Thank you, I was just thinking today about the consequences of sin. And how my sins affected myself and others, including my family and friends. My sins are forgiven, but the consequences of my sins are still affecting my life as well as others. I do have a problem with guilt because of things I have done in the past. I am going to try to overcome that.

I was at a church a couple of years ago.

A lady was at the altar.

It was obvious that she was having a hard time with something.

The pastor called me up to pray with and for her.

The Lord revealed to me that she had sinned.

Afterward she had repented and God had forgiven her but she had not forgiven herself.

I told her that when she repented of her sin she was forgiven right then, not sometime later.

This seemed to lift a heavy weight off of her.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

what does "Repentance" mean? If a person sins once, because they were weak, do they need to repent all over again?

Prax, I guess I am speaking of it in two contexts the first would be initial reprentance as in Mark 1:15 and Luke 13:3 the second would be more along the lines of confession when a saint falls short of the glory of God 1 John 1:7-2:2.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Prax, I guess I am speaking of it in two contexts the first would be initial reprentance as in Mark 1:15 and Luke 13:3 the second would be more along the lines of confession when a saint falls short of the glory of God 1 John 1:7-2:2.

I wish Adino was here to enage in this...Confession and Repentance are not necessarily the same thing..

My question is, if a person has a repented heart full of faith, yet in weak moment he or she sinned, are they instantly lost until they say "Forgive me for my sins"? Do they need to cry or make a long prayer at an alter?

[simplyme]

Originally Posted by Rev

I could answer many of these but I think it would do you good to just read your bible.

Here's one verse you must have missed....

(Acts 4:11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(Acts 4:12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Oh theres lots more S.O. missed, but it is both intentional and biased; because without doing that, there'd be nothing to gripe about., sorry, but I ain't buyin that kinda junk., I almost feel sorry for such types that have nothing better to do but make stuff up., what boring lives they must live. *tsk tsk*

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I wish Adino was here to enage in this...Confession and Repentance are not necessarily the same thing..

My question is, if a person has a repented heart full of faith, yet in weak moment he or she sinned, are they instantly lost until they say "Forgive me for my sins"? Do they need to cry or make a long prayer at an alter?

Good question.

It's amazing what some reduce repentance to.

It's usually a formulaic question pleading for forgiveness. I think instead of Grace. The prodigal son. The Father didn't even wait to throw himself at his feet, run to him, and call for the ring. The prodigal turned back toward God was evidence enough that he was coming home, and this extravagant act of grace caused a response of gratitude from the prodigal, confessing his own sin.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I wish Adino was here to enage in this...Confession and Repentance are not necessarily the same thing..

My question is, if a person has a repented heart full of faith, yet in weak moment he or she sinned, are they instantly lost until they say "Forgive me for my sins"? Do they need to cry or make a long prayer at an alter?

No, I don't at all believe they are instantly lost. I believe that once someone is in the body of Christ, the blood of Christ covers all such "sins" because those sins are already on Christs account and His righteousness is on our account. (1 Corinthians 5:21/Romans 3:21-5:1)

I do believe it is possible to be lost after being born again, but I believe that one must choose to walk away from God in complete unbelief, or in complete disobedience and unrepenantant sin. (Ex: say John Doe livbed a Christian life for 20 years, was an exceptional saint, possibly even a preacher and missionary, but gets involved in an affair. If JD repents I believe there remains salvation for him. However if he puts his own selfish desires above God's word, refuses to repent, and continues on in his adulterous lifestyle and dies 10 years later, I would believe he was lost)

Basically I am sayin once we're saved its hard to be lost. You can be if you want to, but if you don't want to be lost, and serve God the best you can, I believe the blood of Christ covers all our sins and failures.

I think the thought that we can be lost over every little thing is a great error (one which Calvinists often accuse Arminians of, which most Arminians do not affirm such)/ But I have seen this type of thinking in the pentecostal movement for a long time. One week Sis Doe is considered to be living a righteous and holy life, the next week she trimmed her hair, and is backslid, on her way to hell. A month goes by, she repents, and is "saved" again. 6 months down the road she "backslides" and loses salvation again. On and on it goes. We all know people who are "in church" and "out of church" about as often as the weather changes. I don't believe salvation is like a merry go round. You either on or off. And once on it is possible to get off, but your not jumping back and forth. I believe Hebrews 6:4-6 applies here.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I wish Adino was here to enage in this...Confession and Repentance are not necessarily the same thing..

My question is, if a person has a repented heart full of faith, yet in weak moment he or she sinned, are they instantly lost until they say "Forgive me for my sins"? Do they need to cry or make a long prayer at an alter?

Sorry Prax, I hope I answered you question in the context you asked it, but I didn't respond to this.

No not necessarily. An alter can be a good place of repentance, but not necessary. My repentance came at home, when I realized if I didn't straighten up I was truly going to hell. I don't even think I used the word "repent" I did ask God to forgive me, and help me to be a Christian. Thats about all I knew, since I don't have much of a religous background, and ZERO Oneness pentecostal background. To me initial repentance is simply a change of heart and direction. It is literally a move from the power of Satan to the power of God.