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  #61  
Old 08-09-2010, 02:32 PM
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Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII View Post
They pat answer as PO has expressed is that they have not TRULY REPENTED.

A view expressed by the likes of Bernard as well.

There is some sin they have confessed or "left" ... the quickening from above dependent on one's righteousness, contrition and self-will and perhaps ability to recall and list previous sins. Focus, Danielson.

Perhaps if they repent like Borat was instructed to by Godwin they will speak in other tongues?
I think that you can be sorry about some things you have done and still hold on to things you do not think come between you and God, which can be a hindrance. That is what happened in my case. And I think that can go along with the analogy of the old and new wineskin. So, I suppose it was unknown sin to me.I realized that I was holding on to something that was keeping me from completely giving my life to God. I think mfblume has that same testimony.

The Borat thing was hilarious, I must say. And it just goes to show how trusting and happy people are to find someone in need of God. Borat, what a hoot! LOL!
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  #62  
Old 08-09-2010, 02:32 PM
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Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

Bernard on FOCUSING FAITH FOR THE HOLY GHOST ....
Quote:
If people are taught how important it is to receive the Spirit baptism, how simple it really is to be filled with the Spirit, and how to prepare their hearts, they usually receive the Spirit easily. If the necessity of the Spirit baptism is taught many people will be filled. On the other hand, if the experience is merely presented as an optional blessing, most people will not. If repentance and faith are taught, most seekers will receive the Spirit in the water of baptism or when hands are laid upon them after repentance.

Young children, the elderly, the uneducated, the educated, the poor, and the rich all receive the Spirit. Buddhists and others from non-Christian backgrounds often receive the Spirit on their first visit to a Christian church. The accounts of Cornelius and the Ephesians both show that a person can receive the Spirit instantly, at the moment he repents and believes.
Quote:
(5) We must not try to teach him how to speak in tongues. This sign will come as the Spirit gives utterance. Instead of stressing only that he should yield his tongue to God, we should stress that he should surrender his whole mind and life to God. When the seeker yields everything to God, concentrates totally on Him, and exercises faith, he will be able to yield his tongue to God.
Bernard on FOCUSING FAITH THROUGH INANIMATE OBJECTS LIKE LAYING OF HAIR:

Quote:
There have been reports of women letting down their long hair as part of making a specific, urgent prayer request. If the idea was to obligate God to answer prayer or to create a new method of praying, then this action was misguided. If instead it was a spontaneous act to confirm their consecration, then it could have been a legitimate means of expressing and focusing faith.
It's about submitting all yourself and CONCENTRATING .... HARD ENOUGH ... You'll get what you want.

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Last edited by DAII; 08-09-2010 at 02:41 PM.
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  #63  
Old 08-09-2010, 02:38 PM
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Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

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Originally Posted by BroGary View Post
Amen, and some may say people have had a change in their lives without speaking in tongues, but even people who start following a false religion, even Islam, can have a change in their life and stop drinking, ect., so just having a change is not evidence enough, God has a specific initial evidence that would leave no doubt. Repentence brings a change, but repentence alone will not save anyone, they must also be born of the water and the Spirit.

It is like unto when a baby is conceived and is like when the seed of the Word is germinated by faith, but the actual birth is deemed successful when you hear the initial evidence of the new born baby crying, likewise we know a new "babe in Christ" is born of the Spirit when we hear them joyfully "crying" out in tongues :-)
Excellent points!
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  #64  
Old 08-09-2010, 03:08 PM
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Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

THE MOST FAMOUS CONVERSATION IN THE BIBLE
(From Max Lucado's 3:16: Numbers of Hope)

He’s waiting for the shadows. Darkness will afford the cover he covets. So he waits for the safety of nightfall. He sits near the second-floor window of his house, sipping olive-leaf tea, watching the sunset, and biding his time. Jerusalem enchants at this hour. The disappearing sunlight tints the stone streets, gilds the white houses, and highlights the blockish temple.

Nicodemus looks across the slate roofs at the massive square: gleaming and resplendent. He walked its courtyard this morning. He’ll do so again tomorrow. He’ll gather with religious leaders and do what religious leaders do: discuss God. Discuss reaching God, pleasing God, appeasing God.

God.

Pharisees converse about God. And Nicodemus sits among them. Debating. Pondering. Solving puzzles. Resolving dilemmas. Sandal-tying on the Sabbath. Feeding people who won’t work. Divorcing your wife. Dishonoring parents. What does God say? Nicodemus needs to know. It’s his job. He’s a holy man and leads holy men. His name appears on the elite list of Torah scholars. He dedicated his life to the law and occupies one of the seventy-one seats of the Judean supreme court. He has credentials, clout, and questions.

Questions for this Galilean crowd-stopper. This backwater teacher who lacks diplomas yet attracts people. Who has ample time for the happy-hour crowd but little time for clergy and the holy upper crust. He banishes demons, some say; forgives sin, others claim; purifies temples, Nicodemus has no doubt. He witnessed Jesus purge Solomon’s Porch.1 He saw the fury. Braided whip, flying doves. “There will be no pocket padding in my house!” Jesus erupted. By the time the dust settled and coins landed, hustling clerics were running a background check on him. The man from Nazareth won no favor in the temple that day.

So Nicodemus comes at night. His colleagues can’t know of the meeting. They wouldn’t understand. But Nicodemus can’t wait until they do. As the shadows darken the city, he steps out, slips unseen through the cobbled, winding streets. He passes servants lighting lamps in the courtyards and takes a path that ends at the door of a simple house. Jesus and his followers are staying here, he’s been told. Nicodemus knocks.

The noisy room silences as he enters. The men are wharf workers and tax collectors, unaccustomed to the highbrow world of a scholar. They shift in their seats. Jesus motions for the guest to sit. Nicodemus does and initiates the most famous conversation in the Bible: “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him” (John 3:2 NKJV).

Nicodemus begins with what he “knows.” I’ve done my homework, he implies. Your work impresses me.

We listen for a kindred salutation from Jesus: “And I’ve heard of you, Nicodemus.” We expect, and Nicodemus expected, some hospitable chitchat.

None comes. Jesus makes no mention of Nicodemus’s VIP status, good intentions, or academic credentials, not because they don’t exist, but because, in Jesus’s algorithm, they don’t matter. He simply issues this proclamation: “Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (v. 3 NKJV).

Behold the Continental Divide of Scripture, the international date line of faith. Nicodemus stands on one side, Jesus on the other, and Christ pulls no punches about their differences.

Nicodemus inhabits a land of good efforts, sincere gestures, and hard work. Give God your best, his philosophy says, and God does the rest.
Jesus’s response? Your best won’t do. Your works don’t work. Your finest efforts don’t mean squat. Unless you are born again, you can’t even see what God is up to.

Nicodemus hesitates on behalf of us all. Born again? “How can a man be born when he is old?” (v. 4 NKJV). You must be kidding. Put life in reverse? Rewind the tape? Start all over? We can’t be born again.

Oh, but wouldn’t we like to? A do-over. A try-again. A reload. Broken hearts and missed opportunities bob in our wake. A mulligan would be nice. Who wouldn’t cherish a second shot? But who can pull it off? Nicodemus scratches his chin and chuckles. “Yeah, a graybeard like me gets a maternity-ward recall.”

Jesus doesn’t crack a smile. “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the 5 the most famous conversation in the bible kingdom of God” (v. 5 NKJV).

About this time a gust of wind blows a few leaves through the still-open door. Jesus picks one off the floor and holds it up. God’s power works like that wind, Jesus explains. Newborn hearts are born of heaven. You can’t wish, earn, or create one. New birth? Inconceivable. God handles the task, start to finish.

Nicodemus looks around the room at the followers. Their blank expressions betray equal bewilderment.

Old Nick has no hook upon which to hang such thoughts. He speaks self-fix. But Jesus speaks—indeed introduces—a different language. Not works born of men and women, but a work done by God.

Born again. Birth, by definition, is a passive act. The enwombed child contributes nothing to the delivery. Postpartum celebrations applaud the work of the mother. No one lionizes the infant. (“Great work there, little one.”) No, give the tyke a pacifier not a medal. Mom deserves the gold. She exerts the effort. She pushes, agonizes, and delivers.

When my niece bore her first child, she invited her brother and mother to stand in the delivery room. After witnessing three hours of pushing, when the baby finally crowned, my nephew turned to his mom and said, “I’m sorry for every time I talked back to you.”

The mother pays the price of birth. She doesn’t enlist the child’s assistance or solicit his or her advice. Why would she? The baby can’t even take a breath without umbilical help, much less navigate a path into new life. Nor, Jesus is saying, can we. Spiritual rebirthing requires a capable parent, not an able infant.


Who is this parent? Check the strategically selected word again. The Greek language offers two choices for again:
1. Palin, which means a repetition of an act; to redo what was done earlier
2. Anothen, which also depicts a repeated action, but requires the original source to repeat it. It means “from above, from a higher place, things which come from heaven or God.” In other words, the one who did the work the first time does it again. This is the word Jesus chose.
The difference between the two terms is the difference between a painting by da Vinci and one by me. Suppose you and I are standing in the Louvre, admiring the famous Mona Lisa. Inspired by the work, I produce an easel and canvas and announce, “I’m going to paint this beautiful portrait again.”

And I do! Right there in the Salle des Etats, I brandish my palette and flurry my brush and re-create the Mona Lisa. Alas, Lucado is no Leonardo. Ms. Lisa has a Picassoesque imbalance to her—crooked nose and one eye higher than the other. Technically, however, I keep my pledge and paint the Mona Lisa again.

Jesus means something else. He employs the second Greek term, calling for the action of the original source. He uses the word anothen, which, if honored in the Paris gallery, would require da Vinci’s presence.

Anothen excludes:
Latter-day replicas.
Second-generation attempts.
Well-meaning imitations.
He who did it first must do it again. The original creator recreates his creation. This is the act that Jesus describes.
Born: God exerts the effort.
Again: God restores the beauty.
We don’t try again. We need, not the muscle of self, but a miracle of God.


The thought cold cocks Nicodemus. “How can this be?” (v. 9).

Jesus answers by leading him to the Hope diamond of the Bible.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

A twenty-six-word parade of hope: beginning with God, ending with life, and urging us to do the same. Brief enough to write on a napkin or memorize in a moment, yet solid enough to weather two thousand years of storms and questions. If you know nothing of the Bible, start here. If you know everything in the Bible, return here. We all need the reminder. The heart of the human problem is the heart of the human. And God’s treatment is prescribed in John 3:16.

He loves.
He gave.
We believe.
We live.

The words are to Scripture what the Mississippi River is to America—an entryway into the heartland. Believe or dismiss them, embrace or reject them, any serious consideration of Christ must include them. Would a British historian dismiss the Magna Carta? Egyptologists overlook the Rosetta stone? Could you ponder the words of Christ and never immerse yourself into John 3:16?
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Last edited by DAII; 08-09-2010 at 03:10 PM.
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  #65  
Old 08-09-2010, 03:09 PM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

(cont.)

The verse is an alphabet of grace, a table of contents to the Christian hope, each word a safe-deposit box of jewels. Read it again, slowly and aloud, and note the word that snatches your attention. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

“God so loved the world...” We’d expect an anger-fueled God. One who punishes the world, recycles the world, forsakes the world... but loves the world?

The world? This world? Heartbreakers, hope-snatchers, and dream-dousers prowl this orb. Dictators rage. Abusers inflict. Reverends think they deserve the title. But God loves. And he loves the world so much he gave his:

Declarations?
Rules?
Dicta?
Edicts?

No.

The heart-stilling, mind-bending, deal-making-or-breaking claim of John 3:16 is this: God gave his son... his only son. No abstract ideas but a flesh-wrapped divinity. Scripture equates Jesus with God. God, then, gave himself. Why? So that “whoever believes in him shall not perish.”

John Newton, who set faith to music in “Amazing Grace,” loved this barrier-breaking pronoun. He said, “If I read ‘God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that when John Newton believed he should have everlasting life,’ I should say, perhaps, there is some other John Newton; but ‘whosoever’ means this John Newton and the other John Newton, and everybody else, whatever his name may be.”
Whoever . . . a universal word.

And perish... a sobering word. We’d like to dilute, if not delete, the term. Not Jesus. He pounds Do Not Enter signs on every square inch of Satan’s gate and tells those hell-bent on entering to do so over his dead body. Even so, some souls insist.

In the end, some perish and some live. And what determines the difference? Not works or talents, pedigrees or possessions. Nicodemus had these in hoards. The difference is determined by our belief. “Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Bible translators in the New Hebrides islands struggled to find an appropriate verb for believe. This was a serious problem, as the word and the concept are essential to Scripture.

One Bible translator, John G. Paton, accidentally came upon a solution while hunting with a tribesman. The two men bagged a large deer and carried it on a pole along a steep mountain path to Paton’s home. When they reached the veranda, both men dropped the load and plopped into the porch chairs. As they did so, the native exclaimed in the language of his people, “My, it is good to stretch yourself out here and rest.” Paton immediately reached for paper and pencil and recorded the phrase.

As a result, his final translation of John 3:16 could be worded: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever stretcheth himself out on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Stretch out on Christ and rest.

Martin Luther did. When the great reformer was dying, severe headaches left him bedfast and pain struck. He was offered a medication to relieve the discomfort. He declined and explained, “My best prescription for head and heart is that God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life”

The best prescription for head and heart. Who couldn’t benefit from a dose? As things turned out, Nicodemus took his share. When Jesus was crucified, the theologian showed up with Joseph of Arimathea. The two offered their respects and oversaw Jesus’s burial. No small gesture, given the anti-Christ climate of the day. When word hit the streets that Jesus was out of the tomb and back on his feet, don’t you know Nicodemus smiled and thought of his late-night chat?

Born again, eh? Who would’ve thought he’d start with himself.
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Last edited by DAII; 08-09-2010 at 03:15 PM.
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  #66  
Old 08-09-2010, 03:19 PM
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KWSS1976 KWSS1976 is offline
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Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

I am still waiting for the Acts Experience to happen in the Church as it did in the bible...I have yet seen this..when it or if it ever does happen ya'll might just get me on the tongues band wagon..but something inside tells me that ain't going to happen...
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:22 PM
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Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

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I am still waiting for the Acts Experience to happen in the Church as it did in the bible...I have yet seen this..when it or if it ever does happen ya'll might just get me on the tongues band wagon..but something inside tells me that ain't going to happen...
John 20:29 KJV Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Seeing is not believing. Believe and then see!

Anything God does must be taken from the Word and BELIEVED BEFORE we can see it.
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:31 PM
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Smile Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Excellent points!
There are sincere people who think that "just believing" alone is enough to be saved, but if they would take scripture as a whole and not just pick out the verses that focus on the believing aspect they would see that believing is simply one of the necessary things leading towards salvation, which include believing, repentence, being born of water (baptism in Jesus name), being born of the Spirit (initially evidenced by tongues), and enduring to the end staying faithful to the truth.

There are too many verses people would have to ignore to think that just believing alone was enough.

There are those who think that correct doctrine is not important as long as you are sincere, but that is not Bible.

There are those who think that people will be saved if they never heard the gospel, but that is not Bible.

We are not trying to be exclusive, we want as many to be saved as possible, but the Bible is clear that there is more to being saved than just believing or just being sincere and we should not give anyone false hope of being saved if they have only believed the gospel but have not obeyed the gospel.
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  #69  
Old 08-09-2010, 04:53 PM
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Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

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but the Bible is clear that there is more to being saved than just believing or just being sincere and we should not give anyone false hope of being saved if they have only believed the gospel but have not obeyed the gospel.
Well I am certainly not talking about anything like this.

I'm talking about someone who has repented, received the Holy Ghost at an altar and was baptized in Jesus name.
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:02 PM
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Re: Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

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Originally Posted by BroGary View Post
There are sincere people who think that "just believing" alone is enough to be saved, but if they would take scripture as a whole and not just pick out the verses that focus on the believing aspect they would see that believing is simply one of the necessary things leading towards salvation, which include believing, repentence, being born of water (baptism in Jesus name), being born of the Spirit (initially evidenced by tongues), and enduring to the end staying faithful to the truth.

There are too many verses people would have to ignore to think that just believing alone was enough.

There are those who think that correct doctrine is not important as long as you are sincere, but that is not Bible.

There are those who think that people will be saved if they never heard the gospel, but that is not Bible.

We are not trying to be exclusive, we want as many to be saved as possible, but the Bible is clear that there is more to being saved than just believing or just being sincere and we should not give anyone false hope of being saved if they have only believed the gospel but have not obeyed the gospel.

Bro Gary,

In regards to what I have highlighted from your post, how can anyone make the argument that if a person does not speak in tongues they are not saved?

To make that argument would be to make an unbiblical argument-- an argument that does not hold water, when the Bible is taken in whole and not piecemeal.
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