Has Hell Disappeared?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I have another question. Why did hell suddenly APPEAR, God's torture chamber, after 4000 years of silence about such a place? The only hell seen in the bible for quite a while was sheol, the grave, not some torture chamber God prepared for those who are displeasing to Him and on whom He will take out His wrath for their lacking to properly acknowledge Him.

If God's torture chamber actually exists where individuals are going to be horribly tormented due to their failures, shouldn't that place have been at the forefront of the pre-NT 4000 years of God interacting with mankind and not some relatively recent NT phenomenon?

Some would argue that this was a part of "God's Progressive Revelation." They would say that "eternal punishment" was hinted at in Genesis 3:15, along with a hint of the coming Messiah - though neither doctrine was fully developed until much later.

Others point to the Babylonian Exile and the exposure of the Jewish people to Persian Zoroastrianism, a religion with an already fully developed concept of a "Lake of Fire" and such.

Me? I go with coadie. "Hell" is the Obama administration.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I have another question. Why did hell suddenly APPEAR, God's torture chamber, after 4000 years of silence about such a place? The only hell seen in the bible for quite a while was sheol, the grave, not some torture chamber God prepared for those who are displeasing to Him and on whom He will take out His wrath for their lacking to properly acknowledge Him.

If God's torture chamber actually exists where individuals are going to be horribly tormented due to their failures, shouldn't that place have been at the forefront of the pre-NT 4000 years of God interacting with mankind and not some relatively recent NT phenomenon?

Yeshuas doctrine of Gehenna is taken from 2 places.

[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Isaiah 66:22-24

Compare to Mark 9:42-47

[1] For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
[2] But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
[3] And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 4:1-3

Compare to Matt. 3:10-12

That would serve as an introduction to the topic of the destruction of the wicked.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

I've been asking myself that question: What the hell.... errr.. what does this have to do with hell?

You probably don't get it. The "culture" makes up all kinds of notions of heaven and hell. The liberals praise the use of profanity. People joke about isues to be taken with seriousness.

New Testament 'sado-masochistic doctrine'

Richard Dawkins
Controversial scientist and evolutionist Richard Dawkins, dubbed "Darwin's Rottweiler," calls religion a "virus" and faith-based education "child abuse" in a two-part series he wrote and appears in that begins airing on the UK's Channel 4, beginning tomorrow evening.


Dawkins, using his visit to Colorado Springs' New Life Church, criticizes conservative U.S. evangelicals and warns his audience of the influence of "Christian fascism" and "an American Taliban."

The backdrop of the al-Aqsa mosque and an American-born Jew turned fundamentalist Muslim who tells Dawkins to prepare for the Islamic world empire – and who clashes with him after saying he hates atheists – rounds out the first program's case for the delusions of the faithful.


In part two, "The Virus of Faith," Dawkins attacks the teaching of religion to children, calling it child abuse.

"Innocent children are being saddled with demonstrable falsehoods," he says. "It's time to question the abuse of childhood innocence with superstitious ideas of hellfire and damnation. Isn't it weird the way we automatically label a tiny child with its parents' religion?"

"Sectarian religious schools," Dawkins asserts, have been "deeply damaging" to generations of children.

Dawkins, who makes no effort to disguise his atheism and contempt for religion, focuses on the Bible, too

.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48252


In seeker sensitive movements, we don't want to tell people anything that is sensitive?

Public Prayer and praise of THE Lord Jesus Christ are trouble. Profanity is not.
Preeching on hell is a sticky topic.
I don't suggest annointed pastors change their sermons to tickle the ears of the lost.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by coadie

There is a great circling of wagons and denial that the statement was ever made. it may still be true?

It is not PC to talk about hell.

What does this have to do with the hell that is the discussion here?

[Cindy]

This is one of the subjects that makes me wonder how the Bible was put together. How did God inspire or tell men what to write? And why did it stop when it did? Is there more or less than we know?

[geekette]

I don't see any purpose in the doctrine of hell as it's currently preached. On the one hand, it's there for preachers to scare the sinners into repentance but on the other hand it makes the saints privately feel oh so smug about how they're not going to roast for all eternity. (At least today's preachers don't talk, as Tertullian and Thomas Aquinas did in their writings, about how much pleasure they were going to get out of the sufferings of the damned.)

Hell doesn't serve any redemptive purpose as it's popularly constructed. It's pretty much a place of vengeance in popular thought. If you don't believe and act the right way, well, then God is going to get you. I went through that for a long time and I'd had quite enough.

I decided some time ago that I would rather go to hell myself than worship a god who had a hell waiting for sinners, unbelievers, people who didn't believe the right way, people who hadn't properly confessed their sins, people who missed the Rapture, women who cut their hair, men who didn't cut their hair, people who believed in the Trinity etc., etc., etc. Just not my thang, you see...

...here's my handbasket!

[Truthseeker]

Preaching hell hasnt' worked???

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Preaching hell hasnt' worked???

Not in the long run. If you're timing is right you might catch a wave and produce a short term "revival" with it, but in the long run you will find that you really haven't added anyone to congregation itself; and you'll then often have an uphill battle trying to reframe the perception of your church and ministry in the community.

Been there, done that. I'm left wondering why folks keep doing it over and over again when it really produces no net results.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Not in the long run. If you're timing is right you might catch a wave and produce a short term "revival" with it, but in the long run you will find that you really haven't added anyone to congregation itself; and you'll then often have an uphill battle trying to reframe the perception of your church and ministry in the community.

Been there, done that. I'm left wondering why folks keep doing it over and over again when it really produces no net results.

Yeah, all the sin, lying, fakeness, no consecration in general church world tells me hell hasn't brought maturity. Thhe scripture "For the love of Christ constraineth us"
KJV

[DAII]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Not in the long run. If you're timing is right you might catch a wave and produce a short term "revival" with it, but in the long run you will find that you really haven't added anyone to congregation itself; and you'll then often have an uphill battle trying to reframe the perception of your church and ministry in the community.

Been there, done that. I'm left wondering why folks keep doing it over and over again when it really produces no net results.

Someone on FB remarked ... that thousands ... including himself ... came to Christ through the "threat of hell"