Prodigal Son Distorted by FB Pastor

[coadie]

Originally Posted by tstew

With all due respect Socialite, it appears that you may be far more guilty of reading into his text than he is of the scriptural text.
Whenever somebody is far out of bounds in regards to interpretation, I'll not defend it. However, based on what I read here, you may be extrapolating more than he is.

He is making the story 5 times as long as it was.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

He is making the story 5 times as long as it was.

Actually, Coadie, TStew was concerned that I was misrepresenting the FB Pastor's post. Not the biblical story.

[Rob McKee]

First, my post wasn't about "standards"...it was about God's commandments and principles of truth. Too many people want God's blessing without obeying God's commandments. They want Holiest of Holies without a brazen altar. If we have turned modern Christianity into a bless-fest without personal responsibility, we are apostate! There are some things that God still doesn't bless. Sin has not become extinct. Despite some who have gone overboard with sloppy grace theology, to "preach against sin" is not being unloving and judgmental. To ignore truth, is foolish.

FACT #1: There will be people in Hell besides Hitler, Judas and Sam Kinison. Jesus said "most people will go to Hell" in his straight gate and narrow way message. He also said "many" of them will be active in "spirit filled" churches...practicing the gifts of the Spirit...even doing "marvelous works"...it will mean nothing.

FACT #2 Those who "love NOT the truth" WILL be sent a strong delusion..FROM GOD. (that's not a quote from me...2 Thess 2:10). We out to pray every day that we maintain our love for truth.
The problem with this deception is two fold...
1. If you are deceived you will never know.
2. It is "God-sent" (so it would feel like God-revelation) and He called it a "strong" delusion...If you are deceived it is doubtful that you will make it back into the church.

FACT #3 Most Christians (at least the ones who's heads are above ground) will admit that we are living in the last days. The Last day APOSTATE church "IS NEVER DESCRIBED AS A JUDGMENTAL PHARISAICAL CHURCH". The Bible is clear that it will be a permissiveness-flesh pleasing-indulgent church that has abandoned Biblical doctrine for the sake of pleasing the desires of carnal people. All of us should be diligent to not fit in that description. Heaven is worth anything...

The prodigal son left the Father's house in rebellion against "the rules" and the "rule maker". That's why the older brother (who also had problems...but not that he was a Pharisee...lol...that was funny) claimed to keep them. "I've labored...I've served...I've obeyed...unlike JR. Why did he come home? The "rules" didn't change...neither did the "rule maker" He decided that he could handle living with the Father's rules as long as he could enjoy Daddy's fried chicken. What's so "distorted" and "twisted" about this application of the story?

Finally...someone stated that the message of the parable is simple...one dimensional...simply stating one truth or couldn't be applied to more than one thing. That's completely ridiculous. Even Jesus referred to it at least 38 Old Testament Characters on more than one occasion to illustrate different lessons of spiritual truths. One scripture in the Bible can teach 100 lessons. As long as it does not contradict and supports other scripture.

I understand some see separation differently than I do...I accept that. I have no ax to grind with those that do. We all believe in Biblical separation at some level...hopefully. It's simply a matter of where that line is drawn. Christianity was never supposed to be a list of rules...neither was it supposed to be absent of all of them. It's funny to me when I'm referred to as an ultra-conservative. If I am...we are in major trouble...ha.

Bottom line is... Just like the story of the Prodigal...When you reject God's rules...you're headed for famine. (Yet another application of twisting text to mean something different than...yada yada...)

Have a wonderful evening...

BTW...Keith..thank you for your kind words...it really was good to see you at Landmark...wow...it has been a long time since I slept on that couch...lol...
I hate that we didn't get a chance to grab a meal. Man I miss my In & Out Hamburger. I ate 6 of them in 4 days....whew! Next time m'friend.

Rob McKee

[UnTraditional]

Could you please elaborate more on how you got that the Prodigal left because of rules? I have read the story numerous times, and I do not find that there.

[Socialite]

First, my post wasn't about "standards"...it was about God's commandments and principles of truth. Too many people want God's blessing without obeying God's commandments. They want Holiest of Holies without a brazen altar. If we have turned modern Christianity into a bless-fest without personal responsibility, we are apostate! There are some things that God still doesn't bless. Sin has not become extinct. Despite some who have gone overboard with sloppy grace theology, to "preach against sin" is not being unloving and judgmental. To ignore truth, is foolish.

I preach greasy grace, and even I agree with you here!

Maybe saying "God's commandments" is better than saying "rules?" To even consider God's commandments as rules, just to encourage the wrong perception. More often than not, when we hear a conservative Pentecostal talk about "rules," it's about HIS rules not God's. Thank you for the clarification.

[Socialite]

FACT #1: There will be people in Hell besides Hitler, Judas and Sam Kinison. Jesus said "most people will go to Hell" in his straight gate and narrow way message. He also said "many" of them will be active in "spirit filled" churches...practicing the gifts of the Spirit...even doing "marvelous works"...it will mean nothing.

That's actually not what he said. But we'll turn back to Mt 7 another time. This is the UPC Preacher mantra, it seems. And your parable reference to Mt 25 again, we hear you attempting to interpret that willy nilly. Again, in my experience, another parable I've heard "used" against non-Apostolics has some sort of scriptural ammunition to show they are the "true Christians." The audience and reality behind who Mt 25 is directed to may shock you

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by tstew

I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem with discussing this as an element of the parable. I think the fact that the Bible goes on to say that once he received his money he squandered it with riotous or lawless living, makes the issue of boundaries relevant. I would not make that the ultimate interpretation of the parable...and I'm not sure the poster would either. However, the beautiful thing about scripture is that many different valid points can be made and highlighted in context IMHO.

I agree, tstew. Boundaries are a legitimate part of the discussion. Rebellion in general is the rejection of boundaries, whether they be God's boundaries or man's.

Originally Posted by Socialite

Tstew, I respectfully disagree.

No matter the reason, the lost Son left because he wanted to live for himself, he rebelled against God, etc. That's all of us. We all know (those who are familiar with this FB pastor), his intent has much to do with standards, and that's what he read into this story. That's taking liberty, that he should at least offer that he's speculating. The most harmful thing was not his speculation of why the son left, but why the son came back.

Post-modernism is alive and well in Biblical interpretation

Unless he specified that, it isn't a fair assumption to make [that he's referencing manmade rules]. He could just as easily be talking about God's commandments.

Originally Posted by Rob McKee

1st. I posted the text...big surprise since I'm the one is frequently referenced by whoever this person is who calls themselves a "Socialite". Does anyone know this person's real name?

Socialite: Please don't re-post again without giving me credit.
I would respond to your silly argument...but it would violate Prov 26:5...and it's another one of those rules I obey.

Rob McKee

RM - since Socialite didn't specify you were the author, and only quoted a small portion of something posted publicly for the sake of discussion, I think he is within bounds. There's no really good reason not to respond to an accusation, and is often the best way to resolve conflict. Also, a soft answer turns away wrath--that's in Proverbs, too.

What you'll find more often than not (around here) are people with this mentality:

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I don't take anyone's word for anything regarding spiritual matters; His Word has the final say--always. I'm sure you feel the same way.

Originally Posted by Rob McKee

First, my post wasn't about "standards"...it was about God's commandments and principles of truth. Too many people want God's blessing without obeying God's commandments. They want Holiest of Holies without a brazen altar. If we have turned modern Christianity into a bless-fest without personal responsibility, we are apostate! There are some things that God still doesn't bless. Sin has not become extinct. Despite some who have gone overboard with sloppy grace theology, to "preach against sin" is not being unloving and judgmental. To ignore truth, is foolish.

Socialite, this answers your assertion in Post #42:

"...We all know (those who are familiar with this FB pastor), his intent has much to do with standards, and that's what he read into this story."

...The prodigal son left the Father's house in rebellion against "the rules" and the "rule maker". That's why the older brother (who also had problems...but not that he was a Pharisee...lol...that was funny) claimed to keep them. "I've labored...I've served...I've obeyed...unlike JR. Why did he come home? The "rules" didn't change...neither did the "rule maker" He decided that he could handle living with the Father's rules as long as he could enjoy Daddy's fried chicken. What's so "distorted" and "twisted" about this application of the story?

I would say that he left the Father's house out of selfishness, and rebellion was a necessary step to achieve his goals. Either way, he tossed aside boundaries, and I agree that it's a legitimate point to bring out, although I think the most important point to be made is that The Father always meets repentance with a party.

Finally...someone stated that the message of the parable is simple...one dimensional...simply stating one truth or couldn't be applied to more than one thing. That's completely ridiculous. Even Jesus referred to it at least 38 Old Testament Characters on more than one occasion to illustrate different lessons of spiritual truths. One scripture in the Bible can teach 100 lessons. As long as it does not contradict and supports other scripture.

I absolutely agree. There are layers and layers of lessons to be uncovered in every Bible story and parable. It would be short sighted to say that we can only pull out the most generic truth from each one and apply that one to our lives.

I understand some see separation differently than I do...I accept that. I have no ax to grind with those that do. We all believe in Biblical separation at some level...hopefully. It's simply a matter of where that line is drawn. Christianity was never supposed to be a list of rules...neither was it supposed to be absent of all of them. It's funny to me when I'm referred to as an ultra-conservative. If I am...we are in major trouble...ha.

...Rob McKee

I appreciate you coming here and weighing in with your side of the conversation. Just be aware that Socialite didn't reveal your identity - you did - so try not to be *too* angry about it. I would like to read/watch/hear the whole *sermon* in context--or was it just a post?

Anyway, we're all better people when our ideas and thoughts can face analysis and questions. The occasional challenge is good for us.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Rob McKee

Despite some who have gone overboard with sloppy grace theology, to "preach against sin" is not being unloving and judgmental. To ignore truth, is foolish.

He also said "many" of them will be active in "spirit filled" churches...practicing the gifts of the Spirit...even doing "marvelous works"...it will mean nothing.



FACT #3 Most Christians (at least the ones who's heads are above ground) will admit that we are living in the last days. The Last day APOSTATE church "IS NEVER DESCRIBED AS A JUDGMENTAL PHARISAICAL CHURCH". The Bible is clear that it will be a permissiveness-flesh pleasing-indulgent church that has abandoned Biblical doctrine for the sake of pleasing the desires of carnal people. All of us should be diligent to not fit in that description. Heaven is worth anything...

The prodigal son left the Father's house in rebellion against "the rules" and the "rule maker". That's why the older brother (who also had problems...but not that he was a Pharisee...lol...that was funny) claimed to keep them. "I've labored...I've served...I've obeyed...unlike JR. Why did he come home? The "rules" didn't change...neither did the "rule maker" He decided that he could handle living with the Father's rules as long as he could enjoy Daddy's fried chicken. What's so "distorted" and "twisted" about this application of the story?

Finally...someone stated that the message of the parable is simple...one dimensional...simply stating one truth or couldn't be applied to more than one thing. That's completely ridiculous. Even Jesus referred to it at least 38 Old Testament Characters on more than one occasion to illustrate different lessons of spiritual truths. One scripture in the Bible can teach 100 lessons. As long as it does not contradict and supports other scripture.


Rob McKee

You claim to have no ax to grind and use the term "Sloppy Grace."

No I don't think Jesus said anything about Spirit filled churches more creative license with the the text.

No matter how much you insist that it says it, there is nothing to indicate the son left because of the rules, but keep saying it maybe you can convince us.

It is a well accepted principle that a parable is designed to teach one truth not as many as you want to shove into it. Jesus using peoples lives to demonstrate a principle is not the same as twisting the story he told to make a point to make your own.

Would love to hear you teach on the Good Samaritan or the ten virgins.

[Socialite]

FACT #2 Those who "love NOT the truth" WILL be sent a strong delusion..FROM GOD. (that's not a quote from me...2 Thess 2:10). We out to pray every day that we maintain our love for truth.
The problem with this deception is two fold...
1. If you are deceived you will never know.
2. It is "God-sent" (so it would feel like God-revelation) and He called it a "strong" delusion...If you are deceived it is doubtful that you will make it back into the church.

What does this have to do with anything? All your facts are not even addressing the subject matter. Instead, they sound more like you being defensive with your "rules parable" and really sounds contradictory to what you said earlier about it simply being about God's Commandments (which is still not what the story was about btw).

Rob, how do you know you aren't deceived?

FTR, scripture you used here is very much eschatological and apocryphal. It's referring to the Anti-Christ:

This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. 10 He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. 11 So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. 12 Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.

Sounds like you're just ranting to me.

[Socialite]

FACT #3 Most Christians (at least the ones who's heads are above ground) will admit that we are living in the last days. The Last day APOSTATE church "IS NEVER DESCRIBED AS A JUDGMENTAL PHARISAICAL CHURCH". The Bible is clear that it will be a permissiveness-flesh pleasing-indulgent church that has abandoned Biblical doctrine for the sake of pleasing the desires of carnal people. All of us should be diligent to not fit in that description. Heaven is worth anything...

If that makes you feel better about your teachings...

And please don't assume if we aren't by the UPCI rule books that we aren't people who encourage discipleship and being obedient to God. Give me a break...