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  #1  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:39 PM
Barb Barb is offline
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

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Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
One thing the people totally forget about church, is that it is not for the righteous, but for the unrighteous. Why? Because that is where they are convicted by the Word and by the Spirit. If you do not have Sinners, Backsliders and Hypocrits sitting in your pews, then you are not reaching the World.

If someone is ever asked to leave the church (other then for a disruption), then the Pastor for sure is not in the will of God. For even our LORD and Savior went out to the hi-ways and bi-ways and called the homeless, the sinners, to come and dine with him.

Hint. If your church does not look like the world, THEN YOU ARE NOT REACHING THE WORLD.
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2012, 03:48 AM
Titus2woman Titus2woman is offline


 
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

Here is nice article I found. It is not intended to be a contradiction to anything posted here.. Just for information

What is the purpose of the Church?

by Matt Slick

The purpose of the church is to worship God (Luke 4:8; John 4:23; Rev. 4:10), study His Word (2 Tim. 2:15; 1 Cor. 4:6), pray (Acts 2:42), love one another (John 13:35; Phil. 1:1-4), help each other (Gal. 6:2), partake of baptism and the Lord's supper (Luke 22:19-20), to learn how to live as godly people (Titus 2:11-12), and to be equipped to evangelize the world (Eph. 4:12; Matt. 28:18-20).

The church is generally seen in two ways: the visible and invisible. The visible church is comprised of all those who attend services, who claim to be Christians, etc. The invisible church is comprised only of those who are actually born again. But the Christian church does not include false religious systems such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., since they deny the essentials of the Christian faith. Nevertheless, the church is the body of true believers who have trusted in the redemptive work of Christ, who is God in flesh, who died and physically rose from the dead. Therefore, those who claim to be Christians, those who have trusted in Christ by faith alone, are members of the true church. These people attend different local bodies across a multitude of denominations around the world.

Though there isn't a single verse that defines the purpose of the church, Acts 2:42 gives a nice synopsis. It says, "And they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." All churches should model themselves after this verse.

God has given us teaching elders, who are called pastors, so that we might be equipped "for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ," (Eph. 4:12). 1 Cor. 12:28 tells us that, "God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues." The term "body of Christ" is another name for the Christian church. The Bible reveals additional aspects of the purpose of the church that are worth viewing:

To guard the proper teachings of the church, 2 Tim. 2:1-2, "You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also."
To discipline believers, Matt. 18:15-17, “And if your brother sins, go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer."
To become more like Christ, Eph. 4:15-16, " but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ."
To be subject to pastoral leadership, 1 Pet. 5:1-3, "Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock."
To be unified in Christ, Gal. 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2012, 06:43 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

You are blessed then TBF.

I recognize that there are pastors that are honest-hearted and fair to all saints.
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  #4  
Old 01-12-2012, 10:00 AM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

That about sums it up.
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2012, 10:08 AM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

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Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
Or is this just a regional thing?

I probably won't get any answers or if I do, it will be a denial. But....

I was told by a local church's board member that when someone leaves one UPC church for another, the Pastor is called from the former Pastor to tell his version of why that person left. Then it is passed on to the board members.

Board members can't keep anything quiet. They tell their wives and the wives tell other church members.

Then when the "new" person starts the new church hoping for a new start, he/she gets the cold shoulder from the people and the new pastor never brings the subject up to discuss it with the new member.

Please tell me it ain't so....!
I never shared info with Board members but I would call other pastors to be ethical. That's what we were always taught. What I discovered was that it was always one-sided with some pastors. They had this attitude that you were doing the right thing by calling them, but they would never reciprocate. I quit calling those kind of guys. I kept calling the others who would do it mutually.

The idea is not to smear a person but to simply let the other pastor know that the person transferring membership was acting of their own free will and that I wasn't massaging this person to join our church. I was always careful to be complimentary of the people who were leaving our church, never to cast them in a negative light, even if I had some issues with them or the reasons they left our church. We've had several folks leave and return because we work hard not to close that door with them and try not to allow them to burn any bridges.
__________________

‎When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:21 AM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

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Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
I never shared info with Board members but I would call other pastors to be ethical. That's what we were always taught. What I discovered was that it was always one-sided with some pastors. They had this attitude that you were doing the right thing by calling them, but they would never reciprocate. I quit calling those kind of guys. I kept calling the others who would do it mutually.

The idea is not to smear a person but to simply let the other pastor know that the person transferring membership was acting of their own free will and that I wasn't massaging this person to join our church. I was always careful to be complimentary of the people who were leaving our church, never to cast them in a negative light, even if I had some issues with them or the reasons they left our church. We've had several folks leave and return because we work hard not to close that door with them and try not to allow them to burn any bridges.
It would be wonderful if there were more pastors like yourself!
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:42 PM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

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Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
It would be wonderful if there were more pastors like yourself!
Obviously there would be cases where info should be shared, if the person posed certain risks and dangers, e.g. Pedophiles, people who have a track record of sowing discord in churches, etc. But those should be the exception to the rule. Pastors should err on the side of confidentiality, allowing people to not let their past follow them, and forgiveness.

As shepherds of the flock of God, we shouldn't treat people like personal property or get offended when they leave (easier said than done). They are God's property, not ours. He purchased them with His blood. It's either God's will or it isn't if they leave our church. If it isn't God's will, loving them and being kind will compel them to come back should they recognize the mistake. If it is God's will, God forbid I hinder what God is doing in their lives.

Unfortunately, some preachers NEVER believe it's God's will for folks to leave their church. That's usually to the detriment of the pastor than anyone.
__________________

‎When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2012, 08:09 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

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Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
Unfortunately, some preachers NEVER believe it's God's will for folks to leave their church. That's usually to the detriment of the pastor than anyone.
For the last 30 years, I've seen hard feelings from pastor to pastor because one of their "good saints" felt led to leave one church and help another church. Pastor's wife would say that they belong "at home".

I haven't been in a UPC church for about 15 years now and I still hear gossip from the public sector that two local churches are warring over whatever.

I did not understand this (jealousy?) then and still don't 30 years later.
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  #9  
Old 01-13-2012, 09:59 AM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
For the last 30 years, I've seen hard feelings from pastor to pastor because one of their "good saints" felt led to leave one church and help another church. Pastor's wife would say that they belong "at home".

I haven't been in a UPC church for about 15 years now and I still hear gossip from the public sector that two local churches are warring over whatever.

I did not understand this (jealousy?) then and still don't 30 years later.
It's the difference between Lording over the flock of God, and Shepherding and serving His sheep. They are His. I asked Bro Teklemariam once about why the great revival in Ethiopia. He said, "unity". We do not see the same kinds of things we hear of in other countries primarily because the NAmerican church is divided. We are rich and increased with goods, and much that drives the church is money. It's a cash cow. It's the family business. If you lose members you lose money. The jealousy and the ownership and the competition is rooted in the love of money. Instead of pastors rejoicing in the growth and blessing of another church across town, they want to be the one and only place for people to plant. Instead of seeing what we do as a piece of the puzzle to the entire picture of what Jesus wants to do, it's a "my kingdom, my realm, my city" kind of focus. There are exceptions, and I believe Christ will unite His church more and more. Those who yearn for unity in the Body will see it. Those that are isolationists will be left behind.
__________________

‎When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2012, 02:21 PM
Titus2woman Titus2woman is offline


 
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Re: Do Ministers Really Do This?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
Obviously there would be cases where info should be shared, if the person posed certain risks and dangers, e.g. Pedophiles, people who have a track record of sowing discord in churches, etc. But those should be the exception to the rule. Pastors should err on the side of confidentiality, allowing people to not let their past follow them, and forgiveness.

As shepherds of the flock of God, we shouldn't treat people like personal property or get offended when they leave (easier said than done). They are God's property, not ours. He purchased them with His blood. It's either God's will or it isn't if they leave our church. If it isn't God's will, loving them and being kind will compel them to come back should they recognize the mistake. If it is God's will, God forbid I hinder what God is doing in their lives.

Unfortunately, some preachers NEVER believe it's God's will for folks to leave their church. That's usually to the detriment of the pastor than anyone.
OH ME... You must have had your ear on my old pastors office door.
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