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08-17-2012, 06:39 PM
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson
My question is,if a organization was formed,to allow both views,why did this have to be changed later on ?
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My guess is that the three step doctrine of Acts 2:38 was accepted by more people as time went by. I can see why that would happen. I was a one step Trinitarian at one time and from that perspective I came to see the same thing.
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08-17-2012, 06:46 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Location: Orcutt, CA.
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
The first generation Oneness men who wrote, as far as I am aware, all accepted other Christians as saved, and did not consider themselves unsaved prior to their revelation of Oneness theology, such as it was.
It is hard for me to believe that one generation later 90% held the view that the rest of the Christian world was lost and they alone held the keys to salvation. It is not surprising that 4 generations later that 90% of them would hold this view but highly unlikely that would be the case one generation later.
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"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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08-17-2012, 07:08 PM
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
I believe they saw it as "full salvation". When one repented that was the beginning. The process had begun. At least my copy of Frank Ewarts book presents it that way. He forsook all and turned to Christ but many years passed before he said he was in a "full relationship" with him.
Phenomenon Of Pentecost Page 13.
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08-17-2012, 08:05 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
One steppers were a very significant and influencial minority. And official writings outside of the AOF clearly and explicitly show that they were very welcome in the new organization.
See my signature, for example.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-17-2012, 08:11 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
The first generation Oneness men who wrote, as far as I am aware, all accepted other Christians as saved, and did not consider themselves unsaved prior to their revelation of Oneness theology, such as it was.
It is hard for me to believe that one generation later 90% held the view that the rest of the Christian world was lost and they alone held the keys to salvation. It is not surprising that 4 generations later that 90% of them would hold this view but highly unlikely that would be the case one generation later.
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Agreed. And even today, when Water and Spirit is nuanced as two parts of one new birth, there is great hesitation to denounce nor embrace the spiritual standing of 98% of Christianity. Why? The truth of the matter is that many (I believe most) of today's UPC constituency has by default embraced a form of the Light Doctrine.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-17-2012, 09:31 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Agreed. And even today, when Water and Spirit is nuanced as two parts of one new birth, there is great hesitation to denounce nor embrace the spiritual standing of 98% of Christianity. Why? The truth of the matter is that many (I believe most) of today's UPC constituency has by default embraced a form of the Light Doctrine.
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Do we need the light doctrine if we believe in saved at Repentance?
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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08-17-2012, 09:36 PM
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Actually, it WASN'T "about slavery". Slavery was simply part of the equation. There were other issues which dwarf the slave question which drove the southern states to secede from the Union, like their forefathers had done when they seceded from England.
Just pointing that out.
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I was hoping somebody else would point that out. I did not want to be contentious about this issue since it has no bearing on the topic here. But ... most people do not know that the civil war was NOT about slavery.
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It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
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08-17-2012, 09:36 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
Do we need the light doctrine if we believe in saved at Repentance?
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Maybe for the unbeliever, but not as it pertains to those who believe and confess Jesus Christ.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-17-2012, 09:39 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Maybe for the unbeliever, but not as it pertains to those who believe and confess Jesus Christ.
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Ahhh...so you are using it for the guy in some jungle that has never heard the Gospel at all?
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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08-17-2012, 09:40 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Bernard continues his rewrite of UPC history
Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady?
I was hoping somebody else would point that out. I did not want to be contentious about this issue since it has no bearing on the topic here. But ... most people do not know that the civil war was NOT about slavery.
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See, I think that over simplifies it, and sort of diminishes the awefulness of slavery. It was IN PART about slavery.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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