The Marriage Contract

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Marriage licenses are by definition 'permission to do that which otherwise would be unlawful'. IE nobody is allowed to get married, by law, and is expressly prohibited from getting married, unless the State grants permission.

Contrast that with the Word of God.

'Render unto caesar the things that are caesar's...'

Yeah, but permission to marry, or forbidding all people to marry without said permission, isn't one of those things.

Besides, Caesar's been dead for some time now.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Good article...which confirms the first article put up here.

It is true about the schools claiming your parental authority over your children. They are government run and take authority over your children just like they do over the your marriage.

Amen!

As it relates to marriage, the government has made marriage a high stakes gamble... a gamble more and more couples increasingly choose not to risk losing by simply cohabitating. Can anyone blame them? I've experienced the divorce process and it's hell on earth. A spouse can actually string you along for years if you don't have the money to hire an attorney and end the marriage. And when the attorneys get involved... look out... they'll actually instigate war between a couple to make more money off of them.

When I heard that some Christians actually favor "government free marriage" I was beside myself. I'd never believed in the idea of being "married in God's eyes" unless it was licensed by the state. But these commentators and pastors are making a lot of sense. I took my Bibles down from the shelf and discovered that almost half of them have "Marriage Certificates" in the front of them. It also amazed me that some pastors are actually willing to officiate government free weddings and accept these certificates as being valid in God's eyes.

On top of that... I discovered that it's not uncommon for Quakers to not file for a license to marry with the state in "self-officiated" weddings without a preacher. All they have is a "marriage certificate" signed by themselves and witnesses. Who would deny that they are married just because the state was left out of it?

If a couple were to do this and exchange rings... no one would know that they have a government free marriage. Pastors typically don't verify if couples are "legally married" anyway... especially if they wear rings, cohabitate, and state that they are married.

But here's the sad thing in my opinion... most "traditional" pastors would judge such a couple as "living in sin" if they refused to "make it legal".

I'll admit... having experienced divorce and the legal wrangling... I'd welcome a government free marriage. I definitely wouldn't want to go through that hell on earth again. Losing a relationship you cherish is bad enough... but the emotional battery and financial extortion involved in a divorce to get out of a "legal marriage" is almost soul crushing. I know I'd not judge a couple that decided to do this. In all honesty... I'd envy their guts and willingness to go against the grain to claim what was right for them in spite of what tradition might say.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Amen!

As it relates to marriage, the government has made marriage a high stakes gamble... a gamble more and more couples increasingly choose not to risk losing by simply cohabitating. Can anyone blame them? I've experienced the divorce process and it's hell on earth. A spouse can actually string you along for years if you don't have the money to hire an attorney and end the marriage. And when the attorneys get involved... look out... they'll actually instigate war between a couple to make more money off of them.

Believe me...I know about corrupt attorneys. Once you hire them to represent you, they basically are officers of the court and can pretty much speak for you...either help you or hurt you.

Originally Posted by Aquila

When I heard that some Christians actually favor "government free marriage" I was beside myself. I'd never believed in the idea of being "married in God's eyes" unless it was licensed by the state. But these commentators and pastors are making a lot of sense. I took my Bibles down from the shelf and discovered that almost half of them have "Marriage Certificates" in the front of them. It also amazed me that some pastors are actually willing to officiate government free weddings and accept these certificates as being valid in God's eyes.

On top of that... I discovered that it's not uncommon for Quakers to not file for a license to marry with the state in "self-officiated" weddings without a preacher. All they have is a "marriage certificate" signed by themselves and witnesses. Who would deny that they are married just because the state was left out of it?

If a couple were to do this and exchange rings... no one would know that they have a government free marriage. Pastors typically don't verify if couples are "legally married" anyway... especially if they wear rings, cohabitate, and state that they are married.

But here's the sad thing in my opinion... most "traditional" pastors would judge such a couple as "living in sin" if they refused to "make it legal".

That is either because they are ignorant of God's Word or they made the state their lord because they become agents of the state when they incorporate their church under tax-exempt status.

Yet, I will say that there are some who are tax exempt and are wise enough to know the difference between being married in God's eyes and being "legally married". Not all blindly work for the state. I realize that they must get their minister's license for marriages, funerals, even to visit the sick in the intensive care portion of the hospital. This is how pervasive the state has become into the personal affairs of people.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'll admit... having experienced divorce and the legal wrangling... I'd welcome a government free marriage. I definitely wouldn't want to go through that hell on earth again. Losing a relationship you cherish is bad enough... but the emotional battery and financial extortion involved in a divorce to get out of a "legal marriage" is almost soul crushing. I know I'd not judge a couple that decided to do this. In all honesty... I'd envy their guts and willingness to go against the grain to claim what was right for them in spite of what tradition might say.

I have been married nearly 29 years to my wonderful husband. At this point I would not want to marry again should we be separated by death. I cannot see anybody ever taking his place.

However, we never know what our future holds for us. Should a marriage event ever happen again, I would not be opposed to a Quaker marriage or find a minister who would cement a covenant of marriage before God. Most Christians, when they marry do make the covenant of marriage in their hearts before God. The legal contract that we thought was required by God was just a technicality task we did in our list of 'things to do' before the big day.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Believe me...I know about corrupt attorneys. Once you hire them to represent you, they basically are officers of the court and can pretty much speak for you...either help you or hurt you.



That is either because they are ignorant of God's Word or they made the state their lord because they become agents of the state when they incorporate their church under tax-exempt status.

Yet, I will say that there are some who are tax exempt and are wise enough to know the difference between being married in God's eyes and being "legally married". Not all blindly work for the state. I realize that they must get their minister's license for marriages, funerals, even to visit the sick in the intensive care portion of the hospital. This is how pervasive the state has become into the personal affairs of people.



I have been married nearly 29 years to my wonderful husband. At this point I would not want to marry again should we be separated by death. I cannot see anybody ever taking his place.

However, we never know what our future holds for us. Should a marriage event ever happen again, I would not be opposed to a Quaker marriage or find a minister who would cement a covenant of marriage before God. Most Christians, when they marry do make the covenant of marriage in their hearts before God. The legal contract that we thought was required by God was just a technicality task we did in our list of 'things to do' before the big day.

[llambert]

The more I think about this issue, the more I'm in agreement with government-free marriage, although it certainly goes against almost everything I was taught in both church and my culture. To say that you need permission from the state to marry is to put a bunch of other human beings in the mix of your relationship with the spouse God gave you.

In slavery times, slaves didn't/weren't allowed to have marriage licenses. I don't think their homes were broken up by them cheating or sleeping with other people so much as it was that one or both parties were sold to other masters.

In some cultures, it is taught that you need to have a license and a large official ceremony so that you will be reminded of the vow that you made and keep it when times get rough. But honestly this doesn't really hold water. How many people have gotten pregnant and were forced/pressured into getting married when they really didn't want to? On the other hand, if people are serious about each being committed to each other, why do they need to make a pledge to all of society?

Another thing that strikes me is that a whole lot of money is generated in the industry of marriage.

And finally, all of the hoopla over same sex marriage and polygamy- activists are profiting from polarizing people over these issues. People need to be born again. If someone has 4 wives, when he gets saved, I believe God will deal with him and show him which one is the real God-given wife and what to do about any financial/social ties to the other 3. As for same sex marriage, once at least one of the persons commits his/her soul to Jesus, God will give them the grace to show them what to do. I've heard of cases where same sex couples dissolved their relationship, divided up the property and broke ties without huge drama. We need to be in communion and commitment with Christ.

[J4Truth]

I see it as simply the government acknowledges marriage between 2 individuals and offers licenses as a way to protect the parties involved. Sure you can get the near the same protected rights by going through attorneys and wills and all the necessary documentation that a marriage license seems to more easily solve.

Now my questions is, we as Christians must obey the law of the land unless it goes against our faith. So, we as Christians, is it against our faith for the government to acknowledge marriage and require licenses establishing the fact?

[AreYouReady?]

If a couple wants to obtain a marital government license for all the perks that go along with it and for "protection" of all parties involved, that is none of my business. I would never tell a person not to make that choice. But remember that the government is not simply 'acknowledging' a marriage contract, they are the superior party in the marriage triangle. It is a contract between man and wife with the authorities over your marriage and over your children, which is considered to be the 'fruit' of this three-way contract.

There is no biblical precedent where a man and woman must obtain a license for marriage. Consider that having a government that does not acknowledge God in a couple's marriage license contract might just go against our faith for God to be the supreme authority over our marriage, children life and home? The state does not take in account our Creator at all in this contract.

Would a man and woman still be considered husband and wife in God's eyes if they had a marriage ceremony and made vows before God without a state-granted license?

[J4Truth]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

If a couple wants to obtain a marital government license for all the perks that go along with it and for "protection" of all parties involved, that is none of my business. I would never tell a person not to make that choice. But remember that the government is not simply 'acknowledging' a marriage contract, they are the superior party in the marriage triangle. It is a contract between man and wife with the authorities over your marriage and over your children, which is considered to be the 'fruit' of this three-way contract.

There is no biblical precedent where a man and woman must obtain a license for marriage. Consider that having a government that does not acknowledge God in a couple's marriage license contract might just go against our faith for God to be the supreme authority over our marriage, children life and home? The state does not take in account our Creator at all in this contract.

Would a man and woman still be considered husband and wife in God's eyes if they had a marriage ceremony and made vows before God without a state-granted license?

God is always the supreme authority.

I'm only asking if its against the Christian faith to obtain a marriage license. And is it illegal to be married privately without getting a marriage license from the state. If its alright to marry privately but you just don't get the marriage benefits from the state than it really doesn't matter either way (in other words the state don't care, as much as they don't really care if 2 people are living together unmarried), but if its illegal to marry privately than the question is are we allowed to break this law in favor of our Faith.

Another question, do the government have more or less authority over your children, the "fruit" of the three way contract, if you're married or not? (This is a legitimate question because I want to know if there's a difference.)

Another question, is divorce always messy? Or do it depends on the parties involved. I'm asking, if the two parties come to an agreement can they dissolve the marriage and walk away with nearly the same repercussions, conditions, as with a private marriage?

And another thing, I believe that if you made the vows before God with all the intentions of being married together, than yes before God you are married, but I was only asking if you are now breaking some law by not getting a state issued license. Or if the license only matters if you want benefits from the state for you marriage.

[AreYouReady?]

J4truth, did you read any of the articles posted here? A lot of the answers you seek are in those articles.

[BeenThinkin]

When are the parties, Bride & Groom, really married? When they purchase the license?, when they say I do? when the preacher proclaims they are husband and wife? when he signs the licenses or when the courts register the license? Or.... when they consummate the marriage? If it's when the officiant signs the licenses then I have had some couples committing sin for 2 or 3 days!

Just food for thought......

Been Thinkin