List of grace giving churches. - Page 7

Esaias · #1 07-12-2013, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The temple of Solomon was lavishly decorated with silver and gold.

The temple that Herod built also was a magnificent temple. Of course we know that Herod was a monster, but he at least pretended to be religious, and in order to court favor with the priests, he put up the money to built the temple.
Of course he did some not nice things (Like killing his own sons) to stay in power and become filthy rich.
So we know that Herod was definitely not a good guy, Yet Jesus still called the temple in Jerusalem the house of prayer, Jesus taught inside the Temple.
None of the prophets ever complained about the money spent in the temple instead of giving it to the poor.
Some of the priests were rich from their work in the temple, and Jesus did reprove them for their avarice, but not for them spending money on the Temple.

The Scripture says: Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. John 4:21

The Scripture says: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Acts 17:24

The Scripture says: We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. Hebrews 13:10-14

Quote:

Why should the house of God be a rundown death trap?
Why should the house of God look like it is inhabited by homeless bums?
Why should the people of God worship in a building without climate control?
Where is it in the scriptures that the church should not spend any money on building a church?
Why should not the house of God look pretty from the outside and the inside?

The 'house of God' is not a building. No building made with hands is God's 'house'. The house of God is the church, and that is the PEOPLE OF GOD, as the Scripture says:

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22

And again,

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

And further,

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. Revelation 21:9-10, 22

FlamingZword · #2 07-12-2013, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

The 'house of God' is not a building. No building made with hands is God's 'house'. The house of God is the church, and that is the PEOPLE OF GOD, as the Scripture says:

OK, now does your church meet outside in the streets, in the park or by the beach?
Just where does your church meet at?
If you meet under a tree I understand that you do not need to spend any money on it. (Actually I know of a church in India which has services under a big tree)

Do you not meet at a building or at least inside a house?
then someone needs to pay money for that place and whatever services that place provides.

Nitehawk013 · #3 07-12-2013, 01:29 PM

Where is a building called the house of God in the post-pentecost NT writings? Was not the temple and all of it's gold and grandeur a type of something yet to come? It was glorious and golden not for the sake of being glorious and golden, but to point towards something yet to come. When that thing was come...the shadow was no longer relevant.

Besides that, there is a difference on spending some money to make the building look good and spending untold thousands constantly to upgrade a perfectly good building.

Rudy · #4 07-12-2013, 08:36 PM

Well I must say from reading these recent postings it's time for change. We can talk about it for another 15 -30 years or get the process going. The forever hammering for more money seems to be the message of the day. It's not going to stop either.

What happened to letting the Holy Ghost be at the helm in the gathering of Saints? It seems it's all about money and programs.

Brothers and sisters I'm fighting an illness but I hope to see Pentecost restored before I leave this world. As one old timer said," it used to be about prayer and fasting, now it's about money."

I'm not out to judge the pro-tithers but I will speak against how it is taught. I confess that over the years my approach may not have been wholesome and I apologize for that.

FlamingZword · #5 07-12-2013, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy

Brothers and sisters I'm fighting an illness but I hope to see Pentecost restored before I leave this world. As one old timer said," it used to be about prayer and fasting, now it's about money."

I has been about money from the times of the Old Testament
Money was given to the Temple everyone had to give the Shekel.

In the New Testament people sold their properties and gave the money to the Apostles.

There has always been money involved in the church. That is why we have a bunch of false prophets going around preaching the prosperity gospel.

Those false prophets are stealing the money that rightfully belong to the real preachers of the Apostolic Gospel.

Rudy · #6 07-12-2013, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I has been about money from the times of the Old Testament
Money was given to the Temple everyone had to give the Shekel.

In the New Testament people sold their properties and gave the money to the Apostles.

There has always been money involved in the church. That is why we have a bunch of false prophets going around preaching the prosperity gospel.

Those false prophets are stealing the money that rightfully belong to the real preachers of the Apostolic Gospel.

FZ no one is against giving.

Jason B · #7 07-13-2013, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I has been about money from the times of the Old Testament
Money was given to the Temple everyone had to give the Shekel.

In the New Testament people sold their properties and gave the money to the Apostles.

There has always been money involved in the church. That is why we have a bunch of false prophets going around preaching the prosperity gospel.

Those false prophets are stealing the money that rightfully belong to the real preachers of the Apostolic Gospel.

Interestingly enough, God says in Jeremiah 23 that it was the false prophets who stole, not by money, but stole His Words from the people. They stole HisWords because they preached on peace, properity, blessing, and their own dreams and visions, rather than preaching repentance.

There's no scripture to back up your assertion that false prophets are stealing money that "rightfully belongs to the real preachers." Preachers have no such entitlement. We are called to be servants, not to be served. We are called to build His kingdom, not our own.

Rudy · #8 07-13-2013, 06:39 PM

The official position of the Catholic church on tithing money.

Catholics are under no obligation to tithe a certain percentage of their income to the Church. The Church does require the following:

The fifth precept ("You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church") means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability. . . The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his own abilities. (CCC 2043)
The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for apostolic works and works of charity, and for the decent sustenance of ministers. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources. (CIC 222)

Rudy · #9 07-21-2013, 05:08 AM

AOG declares Tithing is not a salvation issue.

The Assemblies of God has always been a proponent of tithing (or giving one-tenth of one’s personal income to support the work of God). We believe tithing is a recognition that everything we have comes from God. The practice checks our greed, promotes personal discipline and thrift, testifies to our faith, promotes God’s work in the world, and alleviates human need. While we do not believe tithing to be a condition for salvation, we do believe it is a very important biblical model, one which should set the minimal standard for Christian giving for people in all income ranges.

Jason B · #10 07-21-2013, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy

AOG declares Tithing is not a salvation issue.

The Assemblies of God has always been a proponent of tithing (or giving one-tenth of one’s personal income to support the work of God). We believe tithing is a recognition that everything we have comes from God. The practice checks our greed, promotes personal discipline and thrift, testifies to our faith, promotes God’s work in the world, and alleviates human need. While we do not believe tithing to be a condition for salvation, we do believe it is a very important biblical model, one which should set the minimal standard for Christian giving for people in all income ranges.

I don't completely agree with this position, but I wouldn't have a problem going to a church that took that position. I think the UPC should take a very similar stance.