Would you stay in a church if...

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Lafon, every part of this forum is free for debating. Just see how everyone writes.

How enlightening!

And here I was thinking all the while that this was the "FELLOWSHIP HALL"! You know, a part of AFF where we could engage in actual "fellowship," a place where those of the same or similar beliefs or opinions might share them between each other.

My bad, huh?

And what purpose is there for the "Debate Room"?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Lafon

How enlightening!

And here I was thinking all the while that this was the "FELLOWSHIP HALL"! You know, a part of AFF where we could engage in actual "fellowship," a place where those of the same or similar beliefs or opinions might share them between each other.

My bad, huh?

And what purpose is there for the "Debate Room"?

What's wrong with fellowshiping with debate? Is debate all about being enemies? Indeed! Very enlightening! I guess you must think me an enemy when you debate me. Gotcha!

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What's wrong with fellowshiping with debate? Is debate all about being enemies? Indeed! Very enlightening! I guess you must think me an enemy when you debate me. Gotcha!

You, my enemy! My, oh my, how presumptuous of you. Did I assert, suggest, or even insinuate in nany manner whatsoever, that the participants in discussions or dialogue about a matter in the Debate Room was restricted or confined to "enemies"? Surely you jest!

Can one not disagree with another's expressed beliefs about a matter and not be their enemy? Of course! I've always considered you as a "friend," and NOT as an "enemy." Do we have differing opinions about some things? Yes! And what are those who called themselves disciples of Jesus Christ commanded to do when they discover what they believe to be a "fault" in the epressed beliefs of another brother in Christ? Is it not to engage in a discussion between the two in a effort to reconcile such differences so they align more perfectly to the sacred principles of the Scriptures? Of course!

With utmost candor, my friend, I must express my feelings concerning how I perceive your relationship to me, and it is this: I gather from your statements during discussions and dialogue with me, that you, being a pastor, yea, even a former licensed minister of the UPCI, apparently consider me (and I ask your forgiveness if I am amiss in what I am about to say), to be less than your equal, although everyone that has become an "adopted" son of God are, in His sight equal, being priests in a royal priesthood! And, UNTIL, or UNLESS you are able to consider me as an EQUAL, you will NEVER be able to accept, much less even consider the "possibility" that God has revealed a truth to me that He has not yet revealed to you.

I'll just leave it at that, hoping that you will not respond hastily, but expend some time in contemplating the value, if any, in what I've written.

And, may God richly bless you, my "friend"! I do mean that most sincerely! May God forbid that it be otherwise.

[Esaias]

I like brother Lafon.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esphes45

you did not believe 100% of what is being taught is truth?

No.

[KeptByTheWord]

Paul was always careful to mention the difference when he was writing whether he was writing the commandments of the Lord, or his own personal preference. Shepherds over the flock should be very careful as to what they try to enforce or bring forth over the pulpit as the word of God, when it may just be their personal preference.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Paul was always careful to mention the difference when he was writing whether he was writing the commandments of the Lord, or his own personal preference. Shepherds over the flock should be very careful as to what they try to enforce or bring forth over the pulpit as the word of God, when it may just be their personal preference.

Paul's writings in the Scripture were inspired of God. Therefore they are not merely his personal, non-authoritative opinions. (And even if they were his personal opinions only, they would still have binding authority due to his position as an elder and apostle...)

See here:


http://magazine.biola.edu/article/08...sonal-opinion/

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Paul's writings in the Scripture were inspired of God. Therefore they are not merely his personal, non-authoritative opinions. (And even if they were his personal opinions only, they would still have binding authority due to his position as an elder and apostle...)

See here:


http://magazine.biola.edu/article/08...sonal-opinion/

There is another angle. God may have allowed Paul's personal opinions and advice to be recorded in holy Scripture as precedent for, and an example of, seasoned personal guidance from the ministry. Thus, while something might have indeed been Paul's personal opinion on how to address a specific issue in that specific context, it illustrates how elders might approach similar issues in any other context they might face.

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Paul's writings in the Scripture were inspired of God. Therefore they are not merely his personal, non-authoritative opinions. (And even if they were his personal opinions only, they would still have binding authority due to his position as an elder and apostle...)

See here:


http://magazine.biola.edu/article/08...sonal-opinion/

I don't mean any harm but that is just one instance being noted. That has been beaten to death. I thought about what I wrote last night and was trying to find instances to prove my point. You could argue that the apostles did not give their personal opinions too much because they knew that salvation is an individual thing.

To Aquila's point
My wife has pointed out to me many times, Psalms 37:37 - Mark the perfect man NOT Mock the perfect man. Take note NOT Copy.

[Lafon]

Mike Blume

From all our discussions, has there been anything you disagreed with me about that you felt I did receive from God and to which you had to alter your beliefs and adhere?

Not yet, Mike, BUT that's not saying that there could not be something in the future you might disclose that would cause me to alter/change my beliefs about a matter. I've always maintained that a "good teacher is one who remains teachable," and I try to adhere to that slogan.

Have I attained "perfection" in the things I embrace as truth regarding all of the elementary principles of the doctrine of Christ (as listed in Hebrews 6:1-2)? Although I would like to think that I always strive toward achieving that goal, I must admit that I might not yet have attained it. But I do try, daily! And I suspect that the same can be said of you.

As we would both agree, and this I have no doubt about, it is the writings of the sacred Scriptures which MUST be the final Arbitrator when it comes to whose beliefs are right, for none are so pious that they're beyond the ability of the enemy to deceive. And that includes you and I both! So we simply must "keep on keeping on," continually striving for that state of spiritual perfection that our Lord commanded (Matthew 5:48).