Reason for Church Services - Page 7

KeptByTheWord · #61 01-14-2015, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Below is a perfect example of what I have been trying to say.

Acts 5:1-11 (KJV)

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. (notice he brought this money to Peter not God) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. (notice she spoke to Peter not to the Holy Ghost.)9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

It is very clear, the God anointed man of God has authority when he speaks for God, whether speaking to a married Man or Woman. A priest never had this authority but a prophet did or in this case the Apostle Peter. Clearly a perfect example of the authority of the 5- fold ministry in the church or out. Notice it was not, and is not, a biblical command for us to sell all we have and give it to the ministry, but the standard had been set and God Backed his man.

No disrespect intended,
J.A. Perez

Several points to mention...

1. Notice it was not, and is not, a biblical command for us to sell all we have and give it to the ministry, but the standard had been set and God Backed his man. This was interpreted by you as "giving to the ministry". Really? So the disciples took all the funds that came in and went on vacation with it? Seriously. The funds that came in were being used to distribute to the needs of the congregation - not just the ministry, although I am sure the ministry was taken care of. The part you missed - and it is a big part - is that the funds went to the needs of the believers and church, and were distributed as a necessity to the body of believers, which would include the ministry.

2. Peter dealt with this situation severely because it was to set a precedent among the churches that committing the sin of lying to achieve status in the church would never be accepted by God. This was what brought fear into the hearts of those observing. God will never accept our sacrifices for him if they are done under any illusion to benefit our flesh nature and pride. This spirit was dealt with so severely by the Lord in the very beginning to teach the church just how seriously God hates giving under the illusion of sacrifice, yet tinged with rebellion and deceit. A huge word of caution for all of us. Just because we sacrifice, and give unto the Lord, if it is to receive status, or to attain a place of leadership, authority, or position within the body - it is not accepted by God if it is tainted with deception in any way.

3. The word of authority that Peter spoke was directly from the Lord. Peter didn't "kill" Ananias and Sapphira, the Lord did. It was the authority of the Lord that spoke and revealed their hidden deceitful deeds.

Aquila · #62 01-14-2015, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

Wouldn't the "for the work of the ministry" include reaching out to nonbelievers?

Yes. But notice something. The ESV reads...

Ephesians 4:11-12 (ESV)
11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,

In the early years of Christianity elders weren't trying to establish followers to gain "members" of their given church gathering. They were essentially training the saints to go forth and establish gatherings in their own homes and communities. The gathering of the saints was to teach and train every believer for the ministry; finding their gifts and showing them how to use them. Teaching doctrine and teaching them how to teach it. They didn't "pen" the saints in houses or church buildings as "members" and establish a "salary" through the inflow of off tithes and offerings. Those who stayed with the elder assisted with caring for the poor, widows, and orphans. However, the main portion of the body was equipped and sent out to establish new Christian communities. And the church spread like wildfire...

Aquila · #63 01-14-2015, 10:51 AM

What if a pastor set down a standard stating that all members must wear a tinfoil hat? The pastor explains that the standard was designed to do several things:

1.) Establish who is obedient to the pulpit and who isn't.
2.) To set a very distinct standard of separation from the world (as the world doesn't wear tinfoil hats).
3.) To test the saints, as the saints will no doubt receive mockings and perhaps slander and persecution for their obedience.

Would the laity be bound to follow said standard? Or do the laity have a "personal relationship" with God that would allow them to search the Scriptures on their own and hear from the Spirit regarding the issue? Would the laity have the freedom to walk in the Spirit and correct the elder tenderly as a wayward spiritual father or mentor?

Sadly, in most churches today... the body is oppressed by the authority of the pastorate.

shazeep · #64 01-14-2015, 11:43 AM

yes, methinks the meaning of 'church services' has been altered in the intervening years...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The funds that came in were being used to distribute to the needs of the congregation - not just the ministry

shazeep · #65 01-14-2015, 11:45 AM

what might be hard for a pastor to get over now is that they were all commies back then, and they lived church, they didn't go to church.

Praxeas · #66 01-15-2015, 05:34 PM

So anyways...my theory that the church service is in part geared towards visitors too?

KeptByTheWord · #67 01-16-2015, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So anyways...my theory that the church service is in part geared towards visitors too?

We must be led of the spirit in all things. There is not a one size fits all formula that works in every single situation - except for allowing the spirit to move and have its way.

KeptByTheWord · #68 01-16-2015, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

what might be hard for a pastor to get over now is that they were all commies back then, and they lived church, they didn't go to church.

You're right. Jesus Christ was who they lived for, every moment of the day. It wasn't an attitude that they put on when they went to church on Sunday, it was an attitude and a way of life that they lived every day.

We don't have to "go" to church. We are the church. When we gather with fellow believers, as a body of believers, we encourage each other, which is building up the church.

Church is a lifestyle, a way of living - and not a building.

Lafon · #69 01-16-2015, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

You're right. Jesus Christ was who they lived for, every moment of the day. It wasn't an attitude that they put on when they went to church on Sunday, it was an attitude and a way of life that they lived every day.

We don't have to "go" to church. We are the church. When we gather with fellow believers, as a body of believers, we encourage each other, which is building up the church.

Church is a lifestyle, a way of living - and not a building.

Lafon · #70 01-16-2015, 05:00 PM

Here's the manner Paul the apostle advised the saints of the 1st Century Church at Corinth regarding the agenda for "Church Services":

"How is it then, brethren? When ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying." (see I Corinthians 14:26-40)

Oh! BTW, do NOT overlook Paul's explicit instructions recorded in verse #37 -

"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."

Sort of puts quite a bit of "added emphasis" to Paul's words, don't you think?