God vs the Constitution

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

Esaias, when was the last time u voted on a governmental ballot?

The 2008 election. After that was when I realized I could no longer play the game and still be faithful to Christ and His Kingdom. I was at the time precinct chairman for the local GOP.

But I have since then been set free.

[FlamingZword]

No thanks, We already had a time when the world was ruled by a group of men that interpreted the Bible and burned anyone who disagreed with them.
They killed the real Christians and established a kingdom ruled from Rome.
That ecclesiastical kingdom lasted for a thousand years and it brought ignorance, poverty and superstition.

If a current evangelical group took over the US we Apostolics would be burned as heretics, they would do it for our own good and to prevent our heresy from infection the "saved by faith" Christians.

[shazeep]

There is a pretty strong correlation with the OP movement and the government already; i think a book has been written about it.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

No thanks, We already had a time when the world was ruled by a group of men that interpreted the Bible and burned anyone who disagreed with them.
They killed the real Christians and established a kingdom ruled from Rome.
That ecclesiastical kingdom lasted for a thousand years and it brought ignorance, poverty and superstition.

If a current evangelical group took over the US we Apostolics would be burned as heretics, they would do it for our own good and to prevent our heresy from infection the "saved by faith" Christians.

So you'd rather the world be ruled by a group of men who believe ALL professing Christians are mentally ill and need to be exterminated or re-educated, then? Well, that day seems fast approaching, but remember - such men will have no need for antique relics like 'Constitutions' written during an era when most people in the society were professing Christians.

BTW, the middle ages were not an example of a society governed by the law of God. It was a society governed by an Antichrist religious apostasy. Those of use who revere the Word of God, and believe that God's Word is authoritative for all areas of lif e- including politics and economics - are not concerned about faux Christian 'theocracies' anymore than we are about satanic demonocracies. Any rule other than God's rule is man's rule under satan's control.

Why do you and others confuse a society ordered according to God's word with a religious denominational tyranny? And why is such a tyranny any different than the ultimate humanist man-ruled society, better known as COMMUNISM?

The mission of the church is to inform all society of the truth of God. That includes educating society on the different roles of different divinely ordained authorities, such as the individual, the family, the church, and the state. Each has it's own sphere of power, each must not interfere with the others'. But under humanism, under man's rule (which encompasses ALL political systems other than God's), the state winds up interfering with both the church and the family, and the individual as well. The state invariably becomes 'god', seeking to dictate everything in all areas of life. We see this now in America, as humanist socialist statism, a creeping tyranny, seeks to grow and expand and dictate all things to all people.

It always has been and always will be the one single issue - are we to be governed by God? Or by man?

Any Christian who prefers to be governed by man rather than God... how can they be a Christian?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Any Christian who prefers to be governed by man rather than God... how can they be a Christian?

I think you are confused, any government established by man is imperfect it does not matter if they pretend to use the Bible.

Only if God was actually here present would he create a perfect government.

[Ferd]

what I would rather is for God to come down to earth and set up his own kingdom. until that happens, I sit and say "even so come Lord Jesus"

I will never participate in an antichrist movement that seeks in the name of God, before He returns to set up some kingdom for him.

That is antichrist. the bible is clear. HUMAN government is NOT ever going to be HIS.

[shazeep]

"what I would rather is for God to come down to earth and set up his own kingdom. until that happens, I sit and say "even so come Lord Jesus"

but how would this not be God interfering with free will? I do believe that Christ will do this, but i don't think it will be like many or most Christians imagine.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by shazeep

"what I would rather is for God to come down to earth and set up his own kingdom. until that happens, I sit and say "even so come Lord Jesus"

but how would this not be God interfering with free will? I do believe that Christ will do this, but i don't think it will be like many or most Christians imagine.

rarely has God ever done things the way people thing he will or should....

just say'in...


back to the subject. There is ZERO bible for Christians trying to set up an earthly kindom based on "Gods Law"

thinking one can do that is Anti-Christ.

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Ferd

rarely has God ever done things the way people thing he will or should....

just say'in...


back to the subject. There is ZERO bible for Christians trying to set up an earthly kindom based on "Gods Law"

thinking one can do that is Anti-Christ.

Agreed completely.

One question though...to what extent should Christians participate in civil government?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I think you are confused, any government established by man is imperfect it does not matter if they pretend to use the Bible.

Only if God was actually here present would he create a perfect government.

Ah, so then all human governments will be imperfect until the Second Coming? Okay, I can agree with that.

So then, since we are bound to have human government (the alternative is anarchy and chaos), how should human government be governed? Should it follow the Bible? Or the Communist Manifesto? Or Mein Kampf? Or Mao's Little Red Book? Or the dictates of the Queen? Or the House of Lords? Or the United Nations? Or any other human invented scheme of law?

How is the Word of God inferior to man's inventions? Why shouldn't society seek to follow God?

If you are imperfect, and will be until the resurrection, then should you say 'I am not goin to follow the Bible or look to the Bible for informing my decisions and choices in life, instead I am going to take a bit from Seneca, a bit from Cicero, a bit from Plato, a bit from Locke, a bit from Sri Rajneesh, a bit from X, Y, and Z'???

How is it any different? As Christians we have decided to follow Jesus. We have decided to live by the Word of God (Jesus said 'man shall not live by bread alone, by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God' did he not?) and not by the word of man, because we know that man is fallible, sinful, prone to not only error but rebellion and abomination.

So how then does everything get reversed when we talk about society at large?

Do you really believe that unregenerate man has a better grasp on how to run society than God does?