Water baptism, can you agree with this statement?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

I voted "NO". Baptism is essential to salvation. One must be born of the water and the spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. John 3. It is just a Christian thing to do if you are kind to those who disagree with you!

Blessings, Rhoni

Thanks, Rhoni. In the thread that started this thread, I asked if anyone could show that John 3:5 taught water baptism. No one has even tried to answer that.

Do you see water baptism in John 3:5? I know that this is the "official" position of the UPC- but no one can show where Jesus was talking about water baptism in John 3:5.

[Darcie]

Originally Posted by philjones

Darcie,

Based on your contention that we do damage to the blood of calvary and its power to save because we believe there is a 3 fold application of this blood doesn't make sense.

You say it takes one step... based on your logic, saying that repentance is necessary must do damage to the power of the blood as well.

Your logic demands that the shed blood be effective without any application or participation from man or you are doing damage to the power of the blood. Then you are starting to wander off into universalism as every man is saved because of the power of the blood and NO action on his part... not even believing.

That is not what I mean and you know it...

Have you read my brother's signature?

When I repent the blood of Jesus washes my sins, (that's what we sing, no?)
I die daily and apply that blood, daily!
getting baptized is because of obidience...I receive the gifts of the Spirit as God see's fit to give me.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Thanks, Rhoni. In the thread that started this thread, I asked if anyone could show that John 3:5 taught water baptism. No one has even tried to answer that.

Do you see water baptism in John 3:5? I know that this is the "official" position of the UPC- but no one can show where Jesus was talking about water baptism in John 3:5.

You are welcome. I believe that John 3:3 & 5 bring out the necessity of baptism. Jesus even modeled the behavior as our example. I was taught that the word of God does nto contradict itself and you must take all the word applied together. If you do this then you will see no other way. From the John 3:3 & 5, 3:16, Matt. 28:19, Acts 2:38, Acts 10 [forgot the verse] and many others. In ordeer to accept God's gift of salvation you must do it His way...through baptism in His name [born of the water], and the infilling of his spirit [born of the spirit aeb speaking in other tongues]. Any man or woman trying to get in any other way is a thief and a robber.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Hoovie]

I confess. For me to feel good about voting in this poll it would need to be anonymous or I would have to be able to qualify my answer.... I would lean toward the first option - and may still vote.

[SDG]

[quote=Raven;260827]

Originally Posted by tbpew

A statement was provided as a concluding sentence in a post offered by Adino in another thread.

I do not take [water] baptism "out of the equation" for proper Christian behavior. I do take it "out of the equation" for salvation before God.

In my Bible College days of 40 years passed I became acquainted with two men named Paul. One was a teacher who's last name was Dugas who some of you will remember of Apostolic Contender fame. The other was the Apostle Paul that I will quote with some assumed liberties. The college teacher Paul taught me that baptism was a circumcision of the heart and had replaced Old Testament circumcision. With this in mind I have substituted baptism for circumcision in the powerful discourse of our good brother Paul in Romans 4.

Rom 4:1-16
4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the baptized only, or upon the non-baptized also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in baptism, or in non-baptism? Not in baptism, but in non-baptism.
11 And he received the sign of baptism, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being non-baptized: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not baptized; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of baptism to them who are not of the baptized only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet non-baptized.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Respectfully
Raven

Just a side note .... Abraham wasn't circumcised until 12 years after entering his covenant w/ God .... yet he's declared righteous before God.

A clear understanding of Romans, Hebrews and 1 John is lacking among our PAJC brethren.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I confess. For me to feel good about voting in this poll it would need to be anonymous or I would have to be able to qualify my answer.... I would lean toward the first option - and may still vote.

In the original thread ... he said if you add a caveat .. you're a yes.

Vote SH.

[Encryptus]

So it is a three step position that one who repented and was filled with HG, lived in Arizona and died before made it to the lake to be baptized is lost without hope?

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Encryptus

So it is a three step position that one who repented and was filled with HG, lived in Arizona and died before made it to the lake to be baptized is lost without hope?

Was it the first time they had heard the message? Had they passed up opportuities before? Is God so weakened that He can't keep them alive until they can get to water?

Is anything impossilbe for God, other than lying?

[RevDWW]

1 Peter 3:18 22 (KJV)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Doesn't the underlined portion point toward some contact with water?

[Scott Hutchinson]

I understand that there is no virtue in H2O, and water in itself can't forgive sin, but I can't do away with Mark.16:16 either.
I believe it's God's will for all people to repent,be baptized in Jesus Name and Be Spirit Filled and live a clean life.