Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Remind me, please.

How does Oneness Theology work for those who really are Oneness but really don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Father (as in God the Father).

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Remind me, please.

How does Oneness Theology work for those who really are Oneness but really don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Father (as in God the Father).

Categories of belief have to have meaning, or else they cease to be categories.

I would say that if a person claims to be Oneness, but doesn't believe that Jesus is the Father, then they cannot be classified as "Oneness".

We shouldn't go around co-opting terms to suit ourselves when the terms have an already well established meaning.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Categories of belief have to have meaning, or else they cease to be categories.

I would say that if a person claims to be Oneness, but doesn't believe that Jesus is the Father, then they cannot be classified as "Oneness".

We shouldn't go around co-opting terms to suit ourselves when the terms have an already well established meaning.

Exactly. No one is in "Apostolic Oneness" who rejects that Christ is both the Father and the Son.

This is a unique faith in the world and as to this particular truth the more Biblical.

[elder_brother]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Exactly. No one is in "Apostolic Oneness" who rejects that Christ is both the Father and the Son.

This is a unique faith in the world and as to this particular truth the more Biblical.

I'm just wondering, from this perspective does any real distinction exist between the Father & the Son? Furthermore, if Jesus Christ is both Father & Son then does a Father and a Son really exist?

Would you be able to affirm that both the Father and the Son are of One divine essence?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by elder_brother

I'm just wondering, from this perspective does any real distinction exist between the Father & the Son? Furthermore, if Jesus Christ is both Father & Son then does a Father and a Son really exist?

Would you be able to affirm that both the Father and the Son are of One divine essence?

Scripture does not say one divine essence. It does say this concerning the Messiah:

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of peace.

I affirm the Messiah (YESHUA) is the begotten son and the Eternal Father? Do you?

The distiction is that the son was born of a woman. Therefore a human being. The Father is the Mighty God of Heaven.

Yeshua is both simultaneously. He is God and man at the same time.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Scripture does not say one divine essence. It does say this concerning the Messiah:

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of peace.

I affirm the Messiah (YESHUA) is the begotten son and the Eternal Father? Do you?

The distiction is that the son was born of a woman. Therefore a human being. The Father is the Mighty God of Heaven.

Yeshua is both simultaneously. He is God and man at the same time.

If you understood what Divine Essence means, you'd HAVE to confess scriptures teach one Divine essence...There's just One God. One Spirit

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Scripture does not say one divine essence. It does say this concerning the Messiah:
Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of peace.
I affirm the Messiah (YESHUA) is the begotten son and the Eternal Father? Do you?
The distiction is that the son was born of a woman. Therefore a human being. The Father is the Mighty God of Heaven.
Yeshua is both simultaneously. He is God and man at the same time.

I believe the problem is that we don't fully understand the NAME: "...and you shall call HIS NAME Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." I don't see where the child shall be called those things, but the NAME shall be called...

If we really knew the NAME, there would not be so much discrepancy within the Christian community. Everyone seems to saying, "Jesus, Jesus"; but they are really trying to promote their own denomination. It is in the NAME that we will find the Wonder of God; the Counsel of God; the Might of God; the Everlasting Father; and the Prince that brought us Peace through the sacrifice of his own body.

Matt. 11:27 "All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knows the son but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the son, and he to whomsoever he will reveal him."

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Scripture does not say one divine essence. It does say this concerning the Messiah:
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of peace.
I affirm the Messiah (YESHUA) is the begotten son and the Eternal Father? Do you?
The distiction is that the son was born of a woman. Therefore a human being. The Father is the Mighty God of Heaven.
Yeshua is both simultaneously. He is God and man at the same time.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his NAME shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."

Hmm...I must be reading the wrong Bible. Mine reads that "...his NAME shall be called..."...

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Originally Posted by elder_brother

I'm just wondering, from this perspective does any real distinction exist between the Father & the Son? Furthermore, if Jesus Christ is both Father & Son then does a Father and a Son really exist?

Would you be able to affirm that both the Father and the Son are of One divine essence?

Sometimes we try to prove our oneness to the point that we eliminate the distinctions. We mesh the three into one and the purpose that each one has. This is allowing the Trinitarian to hijack certain terms fearing any distinctions as proof of the Trinity. Paul understood the purpose of each one and would use each in the appropriate context of his writings.

Truth or ?
Jesus is the Father
Jesus is the Son
Jesus is the Holy Ghost

Regarding God's essence we say He is holy which is separate from all creation. God is a Spirit which is immaterial. The term or title father is a term of endearment which denotes relationship. How does this title relate in regards to God? Is he a father because he has a Son or for some other reason. The Trinitarian knows that Jesus wasn't called the son before his incarnation. In the beginning was the Word. So how then does the term son relate to God? What does belong to the divine essence? Is it a material thing?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Exactly. No one is in "Apostolic Oneness" who rejects that Christ is both the Father and the Son.

This is a unique faith in the world and as to this particular truth the more Biblical.

I believe in ONE God, and the person of Jesus, the son of God. I believe that the son was "anointed"; and the Father needed no anointing, because He has always been holy.

Tell me, how could the Christ, who needed anointing, be the Father who needed no anointing? If Christ = the anointed one, and he is the Father (who needed no anointing), then who was anointed?