FOX Lies!! Barack Obama Pastor Wright

[ChristopherHall]

Obama himself said he condemned the statements, and that he did not agree with Wright.
Is he lying too?

I find the above to be too simplistic. Obama is running for office. Do you really expect him to get into a public debate about what Jeremiah Wright said? Of course not. The statements were provocative, and it’s most likely best to minimize political damage to just condemn any over the top statements and move on.

However, as a free thinking individual….meaning Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity don’t control my opinions….I’d like to hear the sermon in it’s entirety before personally making a judgment call on it. I think that’s only fair. Hey Bishop…if it were a snippet of something you said in a sermon that could be taken wrong….I’d want to hear the end of the matter before making a judgment on what you meant.

[ChristopherHall]

Below is an assignment that I have done in my Critical Thinking class. I am curious as to why the black constintuency of our nation has switched from being Republican to Democratic. Can anyone unbiasly answer this question? Please read before making a comment, and may I suggest going to these sources before you do as well. If you answer with an opinion, at least back it up with some sources.

I think it’s because the parties aren’t static. If you review the history of the parties the Republican Party used to be more “libertarian” pushing for liberal reforms and the Democratic Party was more pro-institution, being conservative on changing things too radically. However, as time progressed the parties changed. Slowly as the Republican Party gained ascendancy they became more conservative and less likely to support radical changes while the Democrats assumed a more liberal approach embracing radical reforms. Since minorities have been up against discrimination it’s not surprise that they would shift allegiance to the party that supports radical changes in social structure.

Just my opinion at present. I know you wanted “sources”…on this one…it’s my opinion based on what I currently understand and I might be right or wrong…and I don’t care. Present more information showing contrary…I’ll reconsider my opinion. LOL

[ChristopherHall]

The Democrat parrty offers more handouts. Perpetuates the victim mentality. It is the party that wants to tax those mean ole prejudice rich white people more and give the money to poor folks.

LBJ's so called "Great Society" programs almost single handedly destroyed the nuclear family in Black Culture by rewarding having no male in the home, single mothers, and the more illegetimate children you had the more you were rewarded with Government hand outs. All, of course, in the guise of "helping the children".

Welfare is an interesting subject. Every society since ancient times has had a social welfare system of sorts. The idea behind the system is known in Scripture as “Justice”. The Holman Bible Dictionary explains it well….

JUSTICE

The order God seeks to reestablish in His creation where all people receive the benefits of life with Him. As love is for the New Testament, so justice is the central ethical idea of the Old Testament. The frequency of justice is sometimes missed by the reader due to a failure to realize that the wide range of the Hebrew word mishpat, particularly in passages that deal with the material and social necessities of life.

Nature of justice Justice has two major aspects. First, it is the standard by which penalties are assigned for breaking the obligations of the society. Second, justice is the standard by which the advantages of social life are handed out, including material goods, rights of participation, opportunities, and liberties. It is the standard for both punishment and benefits and thus can be spoken of as a plumb line. “I shall use justice as a plumb-line, and righteousness as a plummet” (Isaiah 28:17, REB).

Often people think of justice in the Bible only in the first sense as God's wrath on evil. This aspect of justice indeed is present, such as the judgment mentioned in John 3:19. Often more vivid words like “wrath” are used to describe punitive justice (Romans 1:18).

Justice in the Bible very frequently also deals with benefits. Cultures differ widely in determining the basis by which the benefits are to be justly distributed. For some it is by birth and nobility. For others the basis is might or ability or merit. Or it might simply be whatever is the law or whatever has been established by contracts. The Bible takes another possibility. Benefits are distributed according to need. Justice then is very close to love and grace. God “executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and… loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing” (Deuteronomy 10:18, NRSV; compare Hosea 10:12; Isaiah 30:18).

Various needy groups are the recipients of justice. These groups include widows, orphans, resident aliens (also called “sojourners” or “strangers”), wage earners, the poor, and prisoners, slaves, and the sick (Job 29:12-17; Psalms 146:7-9; Malachi 3:5). Each of these groups has specific needs which keep its members from being able to participate in aspects of the life of their community. Even life itself might be threatened. Justice involves meeting those needs. The forces which deprive people of what is basic for community life are condemned as oppression (Micah 2:2; Ecclesiastes 4:1). To oppress is to use power for one's own advantage in depriving others of their basic rights in the community (see Mark 12:40). To do justice is to correct that abuse and to meet those needs (Isaiah 1:17). Injustice is depriving others of their basic needs or failing to correct matters when those rights are not met (Jeremiah 5:28; Job 29:12-17). Injustice is either a sin of commission or of omission.

The content of justice, the benefits which are to be distributed as basic rights in the community, can be identified by observing what is at stake in the passages in which “justice,” “righteousness,” and “judgment” occur. The needs which are met include land (Ezekiel 45:6-9; compare Micah 2:2; Micah 4:4) and the means to produce from the land, such as draft animals and millstones (Deuteronomy 22:1-4; Deuteronomy 24:6). These productive concerns are basic to securing other essential needs and thus avoiding dependency; thus the millstone is called the “life” of the person (Deuteronomy 24:6). Other needs are those essential for mere physical existence and well being: food (Deuteronomy 10:18; Psalms 146:7), clothing (Deuteronomy 24:13), and shelter (Psalms 68:6; Job 8:6). Job 22:5-9,Job 22:23; Job 24:1-12 decries the injustice of depriving people of each one of these needs, which are material and economic. The equal protection of each person in civil and judicial procedures is represented in the demand for due process (Deuteronomy 16:18-20). Freedom from bondage is comparable to not being “in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and lack of everything” (Deuteronomy 28:48 NRSV).

Justice presupposes God's intention for people to be in community. When people had become poor and weak with respect to the rest of the community, they were to be strengthened so that they could continue to be effective members of the community—living with them and beside them (Leviticus 25:35-36). Thus biblical justice restores people to community. By justice those who lacked the power and resources to participate in significant aspects of the community were to be strengthened so that they could. This concern in Leviticus 25:1 is illustrated by the provision of the year of Jubilee, in which at the end of the fifty year period land is restored to those who had lost it through sale or foreclosure of debts (Leviticus 25:28). Thus they regained economic power and were brought back into the economic community. Similarly, interest on loans was prohibited (Leviticus 25:36) as a process which pulled people down, endangering their position in the community.

[ChristopherHall]

CONTINUED:

These legal provisions express a further characteristic of justice. Justice delivers; it does not merely relieve the immediate needs of those in dire straits (Psalms 76:9; Isaiah 45:8; Isaiah 58:11; Isaiah 62:1-2). Helping the needy means setting them back on their feet, giving a home, leading to prosperity, restoration, ending the oppression (Psalms 68:5-10; Psalms 10:15-16; compare 107; Psalms 113:7-9). Such thorough justice can be socially disruptive. In the Jubilee year as some receive back lands, others lose recently-acquired additional land. The advantage to some is a disadvantage to others. In some cases the two aspects of justice come together. In the act of restoration, those who were victims of justice receive benefits while their exploiters are punished (1 Samuel 2:7-10; compare Luke 1:51-53; Luke 6:20-26).

The source of justice As the sovereign Creator of the universe, God is just (Psalms 99:1-4; Genesis 18:25; Deuteronomy 32:4; Jeremiah 9:24), particularly as the defender of all the oppressed of the earth (Psalms 76:9; Psalms 103:6; Jeremiah 49:11). Justice thus is universal (Psalms 9:7-9) and applies to each covenant or dispensation. Jesus affirmed for His day the centrality of the Old Testament demand for justice (Matthew 23:23). Justice is the work of the New Testament people of God (James 1:27).

God's justice is not a distant external standard. It is the source of all human justice (Proverbs 29:26; 2 Chronicles 19:6,2 Chronicles 19:9). Justice is grace received and grace shared (2 Corinthians 9:8-10).

The most prominent human agent of justice is the ruler. The king receives God's justice and is a channel for it (Psalms 72:1; compare Romans 13:1-2,Romans 13:4). There is not a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice. The same caring for the needy groups of the society is demanded of the ruler (Psalms 72:4; Ezekiel 34:4; Jeremiah 22:15-16). Such justice was also required of pagan rulers (Daniel 4:27; Proverbs 31:8-9).

Justice is also a central demand on all people who bear the name of God. Its claim is so basic that without it other central demands and provisions of God are not acceptable to God. Justice is required to be present with the sacrificial system (Amos 5:21-24; Micah 6:6-8; Isaiah 1:11-17; Matthew 5:23-24), fasting (Isaiah 58:1-10), tithing (Matthew 23:23), obedience to the other commandments (Matthew 19:16-21), or the presence of the Temple of God (Jeremiah 7:1-7).

Justice in salvation Apart from describing God's condemnation of sin, Paul used the language and meaning of justice to speak of personal salvation. “The righteousness of God” represents God in grace bringing into the community of God through faith in Christ those who had been outside of the people of God (particularly in Romans but compare also Ephesians 2:12-13). See Law; Government; Poverty; Righteousness; Welfare.

Stephen Charles Mott

[ChristopherHall]

Social Justice (welfare programs) have been with Jewish and Christian societies since gleaning laws and the poor tithe. The Church welcomed widows into it’s care who had served the church and were over 65 years of age.

A Christian Society will have laws reflecting “social justice”. Interestingly, most Christians (primarily in America) have become radically biased against nearly any measure of social justice in modern society.

When discussing issues of poverty and welfare we do well not to “politicize” the subject but rather, as Christians, look at it biblically.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Social Justice (welfare programs) have been with Jewish and Christian societies since gleaning laws and the poor tithe. The Church welcomed widows into it’s care who had served the church and were over 65 years of age.

A Christian Society will have laws reflecting “social justice”. Interestingly, most Christians (primarily in America) have become radically biased against nearly any measure of social justice in modern society.

When discussing issues of poverty and welfare we do well not to “politicize” the subject but rather, as Christians, look at it biblically.

There's a difference is helping the needy and making lazy people dependent on the Government for their survival. Don't you think?

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

There's a difference is helping the needy and making lazy people dependent on the Government for their survival. Don't you think?

In the Bible God commands Israel,

Deuteronomy 15:11
For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

In every society there will be those who are chronically poor. This may be due to disability, psychological/emotional issues, abandonment, being elderly and needing care, and yes…laziness. In the ancient East all in the nation were entitled to basic survival. This was to preserve the nation and the culture. This is why laws like gleaning laws and the third year’s poor tithe are mentioned in the Bible. Anthropological researchers have found that such measures were common I ancient agricultural societies, especially in the Middle East. It was the duty of the entire society to provide the social safety net needed to ensure Social Justice. The book of Amos is an extensive rebuke for the nation’s failure to fulfill it’s obligation to the most needy in their society.

I’m sure that there were some who gleaned the fields who may have been capable of doing work of their own. However, the Bible doesn’t appear to address them. Paul does address MEN who are able to work who don’t. Generally the classes that were entitled to Social Justice were the poor (those who's work didn't provide enough to live by), needy (disabled), fatherless (abandoned mother’s and children), widows (elderly), and strangers (immigrants). All were entitled to glean…oh…and also the Levite. The Levite and the religious classes were also entitled to glean because they were not allowed to own land of their own. This is why Jesus, an able bodied man, gleaned the corn fields with his disciples when accused by the Pharisees for eating with unwashed hands. So there have always been requirements for assistance. America would do well to consider the Biblical requirements of social justice in distribution of welfare.

Welfare, or Social Justice, is commented on throughout the Bible as my reference above presents.

God bless.

[bishopnl]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I find the above to be too simplistic. Obama is running for office. Do you really expect him to get into a public debate about what Jeremiah Wright said? Of course not. The statements were provocative, and it’s most likely best to minimize political damage to just condemn any over the top statements and move on.

However, as a free thinking individual….meaning Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity don’t control my opinions….I’d like to hear the sermon in it’s entirety before personally making a judgment call on it. I think that’s only fair. Hey Bishop…if it were a snippet of something you said in a sermon that could be taken wrong….I’d want to hear the end of the matter before making a judgment on what you meant.

So Obama is lying for political convenience?

Further, you call the statements "over the top." Does that mean you agree with assessment issued by various commentators that the statements were unnecessary and uncalled for?

As for snippets of what I've said in sermons....I don't mention my political views in sermons. It's much harder to take someone out of context when they are dedicating their pulpit time to preaching a crucified Christ rather than what they think politically.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I find the above to be too simplistic. Obama is running for office. Do you really expect him to get into a public debate about what Jeremiah Wright said? Of course not. The statements were provocative, and it’s most likely best to minimize political damage to just condemn any over the top statements and move on.

However, as a free thinking individual….meaning Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity don’t control my opinions….I’d like to hear the sermon in it’s entirety before personally making a judgment call on it. I think that’s only fair. Hey Bishop…if it were a snippet of something you said in a sermon that could be taken wrong….I’d want to hear the end of the matter before making a judgment on what you meant.

Obama has spin doctors like everyone else does. They could have simply pointed out JW really did not say what he said everyone is saying and that it was out of context and that fox lied....rather than have Obama lie to everyone else

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

A Christian Society will have laws reflecting “social justice”. Interestingly, most Christians (primarily in America) have become radically biased against nearly any measure of social justice in modern society.

When discussing issues of poverty and welfare we do well not to “politicize” the subject but rather, as Christians, look at it biblically.

Ah more of that subjective touchy feely assumptions you would be able to prove. Good grief....You know people, don't be surprised at the responses you get from others when you make sweeping generalizations like this that are unprovable.