Firearms Refresher Course

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Sis,

I have bowed out of this, as I do not see anything being accomplished out of it. But I will answer you because you have asked.

I gave scripture that from my viewpoint would not allow someone to use deadly force on an enemy.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

While I know it is possible to stop someone from doing violence to another through means other than deadly force, because I had a job that required me to do such, I do not see where one can fulfill this scripture and use deadly force on someone at the same time.

For my belief I have now been labeled as "too spiritual" and "worse than an infidel". Since I do not particularly like to be victimized, I am doing the non-violent thing , and simply not posting here further. You folks that can figure out how to blow some robbers brains out and love him at the same time can have at it. I will do my best to live my convictions, and should I fail in the time of testing, I have an advocate with the Father.

st matt, i would like to applaud you for your spirit, there have been many that have posted on this thread that have a different opinion than mine, but they have been rude, crude and ugly at times , the bottom line is there spirit overrides any truth they may have presented, on the other hand your spirit honors the truth you present, god bless you and keep you my brother, dt

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Sis,

I have bowed out of this, as I do not see anything being accomplished out of it. But I will answer you because you have asked.

I gave scripture that from my viewpoint would not allow someone to use deadly force on an enemy.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

While I know it is possible to stop someone from doing violence to another through means other than deadly force, because I had a job that required me to do such, I do not see where one can fulfill this scripture and use deadly force on someone at the same time.

For my belief I have now been labeled as "too spiritual" and "worse than an infidel". Since I do not particularly like to be victimized, I am doing the non-violent thing , and simply not posting here further. You folks that can figure out how to blow some robbers brains out and love him at the same time can have at it. I will do my best to live my convictions, and should I fail in the time of testing, I have an advocate with the Father.

It's from your viewpoint that this verse forbids using deadly force on someone that is attempting to harm your family. I do not agree. However would this also apply to your view of the death penalty, imprisonment and non-lethal violence? Should we, as Christians, also want to abolish the police? I mean, if it's wrong and we don't oppose it morally then we are equally as complicent in another persons sins.

BTW did anyone see my point regarding the Lord taking vengeance that the definition of such is to repay someone for their crimes and not rather to protect someone elses life?

Also why do we put pedophiles in prison? to punish them and or also to protect others? If it's ok to protect others...innocents, then does it not stand to reason that when there is no other alternative we might have to resort to violence?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

[b]While He was here, Jesus had needs in His flesh. Jesus met these needs of His flesh without sin. He ate, He drank, He slept, He built fires to keep warm, He obtained and wore clothing, He obtained and wore shoes, He got happy, He got sad and cried, He got angry and horsewhipped a bunch of heathen reprobates. Uh oh! Where did that come from??? oloroid

IAAAAMMMMMM BAAAACCCKKKK!

My departure was delayed until tomorrow due to time and wheather. Now to the above statement:

Do you guys even study?? WHERE DOES IT SAY JESUS BEAT THE MONEY-CHANGERS?? UNREAL!

Look at what IT DOES say:

(John 2:15 KJV) And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

(John 2:15 ALT) And having made a whip out of small cords, He cast out all [of them] out of the temple, both the sheep and the oxen. And He poured out the coins of the money changers, and He overturned the tables.

(John 2:15 AMP) And having made a lash (a whip) of cords, He drove them all out of the temple [enclosure]--both the sheep and the oxen--spilling and scattering the brokers' money and upsetting and tossing around their trays (their stands).

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Of small cords - This whip was made as an emblem of authority, and also for the purpose of driving from the temple the cattle which had been brought there for sale. There is no evidence that he used any violence to the men engaged in that unhallowed traffic. The original word implies that these “cords” were made of twisted “rushes” or “reeds” - probably the ancient material for making ropes.

Robertson's Word Pictures
Cast out (exebalen). Second aorist active indicative of ekballō. It is not said that Jesus smote the sheep and oxen (note te kai, both and), for a flourish of the scourge would answer.

John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible
Joh 2:15 - Having made a scourge of rushes - (Which were strewed on the ground,) he drove all out of the temple, (that is, the court of it,) both the sheep and the oxen - Though it does not appear that he struck even them; and much less, any of the men. But a terror from God, it is evident, fell upon them.

Even if Jesus did use this whip to drive out the money-changes as well, there is NO WORD that He ever struck--or as you implied--beat them. To suggest Jesus beat these, or any other men, is to go against all else Jesus represented.

How could Jesus tell His disciples of peace with their enemy and then turn around and horse whip men in the Temple?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Hey wait!

You are definitely out of the will of God.

You used the "I" word three times...count 'em three times. THEN and THEN, you put a heavy emphasis on "ME."

Shall I bump your post in which you condemned me for using "I" three times in making a point...which had nothing to do with me, btw.

Again, CONTEXT is the problem. What I said (which I think you surely know) was that we cannot prove Bible Truth by using "I think" or "I believe," for our evidence. That is what I said and meant. Surely you believe BIBLE scriptures are obligatory for the authentication of BIBLICAL Truth?

CONTEXT is a buffer that helps keep a person from misrepresenting the Bible and/or the saints.

Brandishing a weapon (including a whip) would be perceived as a threat... otherwise why would anyone pay attention to it?

Otherwise, why didn't he stand in the middle of the temple with a wet noodle whispering for everyone to please leave? I imagine that would have been effective...

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Ferd

So far, 71 pages and nobody got shot, and nobody has shot nobody. what good is this thread anyway?

There have been a few wild shots and ricocheting bullets that needed dodged!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

For my belief I have now been labeled as "too spiritual" and "worse than an infidel". Since I do not particularly like to be victimized, I am doing the non-violent thing , and simply not posting here further. You folks that can figure out how to blow some robbers brains out and love him at the same time can have at it. I will do my best to live my convictions, and should I fail in the time of testing, I have an advocate with the Father.

Brother STMATTHEW,

God bless you!

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Brandishing a weapon (including a whip) would be perceived as a threat... otherwise why would anyone pay attention to it?

Otherwise, why didn't he stand in the middle of the temple with a wet noodle whispering for everyone to please leave? I imagine that would have been effective...

Don't forget that He also overturned the tables. But I'm sure He did it very carefully, as to not damage anything or make their money scatter about....







Jesus was quite angry, actually. I don't think He beat those men, but I'm sure with that whip in His hand, nobody challenged Him otherwise!

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

IAAAAMMMMMM BAAAACCCKKKK!

Even if Jesus did use this whip to drive out the money-changes as well, there is NO WORD that He ever struck--or as you implied--beat them. To suggest Jesus beat these, or any other men, is to go against all else Jesus represented.

Nitpicker!

How could Jesus tell His disciples of peace with their enemy and then turn around and horse whip men in the Temple?

How could He sweet talk hard-hearted men into leaving a profitable vocation at a profitable location? Engraved invitations? Devious talk of a free lunch next door? A special Publican whistle?

He drove them somehow.

I'll grant you it's unknown. But if you've ever herded anything you know there's some knocking about and roughness involved. What would you call flipping the tables over? From the money-changers' viewpoint, it was spiteful.

A good deal of the talk about enemies is contextualized into how one treats their neighbors, such that one's "enemy" is somebody on the other side of some neighborhood squabble, business dispute or family quarrel, not some armed-to-the-teeth Mongol horseman swooping in like the angel of death.

You folks that can figure out how to blow some robbers brains out and love him at the same time can have at it

Does God love sinners?

What happens to them if they do not do what He wants?