Firearms Refresher Course

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

For my belief I have now been labeled as "too spiritual" and "worse than an infidel". Since I do not particularly like to be victimized, I am doing the non-violent thing , and simply not posting here further. You folks that can figure out how to blow some robbers brains out and love him at the same time can have at it. I will do my best to live my convictions, and should I fail in the time of testing, I have an advocate with the Father.

Reminds me of people who swear the only reason they are banned from forums is because they are some sort of prophet preaching the truth and not for other obvious reasons that they can't see....

I didn't see anyone label StMatt here too spiritual nor worse than an infidel for his beliefs.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Don't forget that He also overturned the tables. But I'm sure He did it very carefully, as to not damage anything or make their money scatter about....







Jesus was quite angry, actually. I don't think He beat those men, but I'm sure with that whip in His hand, nobody challenged Him otherwise!

Sounds like he did

Joh 2:14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there.
Joh 2:15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables.
Joh 2:16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, "Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade."

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

st matt, i would like to applaud you for your spirit, there have been many that have posted on this thread that have a different opinion than mine, but they have been rude, crude and ugly at times , the bottom line is there spirit overrides any truth they may have presented, on the other hand your spirit honors the truth you present, god bless you and keep you my brother, dt

The subject at hand has NOTHING to do with what a person believes or does. Man is NEVER the way to determine biblical Truth. The Word never changes. Men do. To look to a man to determine what is or is not Bible, is a loosing game. The only One to look to is Jesus and His Word. I fail; so do you; but Jesus never changes!

Sister, the Bible says the devil knows there is One God. Does his agreement with there being One God then nullify this godhead belief from being a biblical Truth? Of course not! So what any man says we should do is not the issue. Instead it is all about what does Jesus says we SHOULD do. That should be the focus.

God bless you!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Brandishing a weapon (including a whip) would be perceived as a threat... otherwise why would anyone pay attention to it?

Otherwise, why didn't he stand in the middle of the temple with a wet noodle whispering for everyone to please leave? I imagine that would have been effective...

Look at what IT says:

(John 2:15 KJV) And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

(John 2:15 ALT) And having made a whip out of small cords, He cast out all [of them] out of the temple, both the sheep and the oxen. And He poured out the coins of the money changers, and He overturned the tables.

(John 2:15 AMP) And having made a lash (a whip) of cords, He drove them all out of the temple [enclosure]--both the sheep and the oxen--spilling and scattering the brokers' money and upsetting and tossing around their trays (their stands).

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Of small cords - This whip was made as an emblem of authority, and also for the purpose of driving from the temple the cattle which had been brought there for sale. There is no evidence that he used any violence to the men engaged in that unhallowed traffic. The original word implies that these “cords” were made of twisted “rushes” or “reeds” - probably the ancient material for making ropes.

Robertson's Word Pictures
Cast out (exebalen). Second aorist active indicative of ekballō. It is not said that Jesus smote the sheep and oxen (note te kai, both and), for a flourish of the scourge would answer.

John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible
Joh 2:15 - Having made a scourge of rushes - (Which were strewed on the ground,) he drove all out of the temple, (that is, the court of it,) both the sheep and the oxen - Though it does not appear that he struck even them; and much less, any of the men. But a terror from God, it is evident, fell upon them.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I didn't see anyone label StMatt here too spiritual nor worse than an infidel for his beliefs.

Said labeling is inferred; "too spiritual" from a TIC or sarcastic post of Brother Strange's, and "worse than an infidel" from yours truly.

I think StMatthew is closer to being persuaded than even he realizes.


Brother Matthew,

<Darth Vader voice>Come to the dark side.</Darth Vader>

We have cookies!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Does God love sinners?

What happens to them if they do not do what He wants?

"While we were YET sinners..." "God so loved THE WORLD...." So, YES He does!

The question is not about God; it's about what He asks us to do. God is the One with the responsibility to bring vengeance, not man.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Look at what IT says:

(John 2:15 KJV) And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

(John 2:15 ALT) And having made a whip out of small cords, He cast out all [of them] out of the temple, both the sheep and the oxen. And He poured out the coins of the money changers, and He overturned the tables.

(John 2:15 AMP) And having made a lash (a whip) of cords, He drove them all out of the temple [enclosure]--both the sheep and the oxen--spilling and scattering the brokers' money and upsetting and tossing around their trays (their stands).

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Of small cords - This whip was made as an emblem of authority, and also for the purpose of driving from the temple the cattle which had been brought there for sale. There is no evidence that he used any violence to the men engaged in that unhallowed traffic. The original word implies that these “cords” were made of twisted “rushes” or “reeds” - probably the ancient material for making ropes.

Robertson's Word Pictures
Cast out (exebalen). Second aorist active indicative of ekballō. It is not said that Jesus smote the sheep and oxen (note te kai, both and), for a flourish of the scourge would answer.

John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible
Joh 2:15 - Having made a scourge of rushes - (Which were strewed on the ground,) he drove all out of the temple, (that is, the court of it,) both the sheep and the oxen - Though it does not appear that he struck even them; and much less, any of the men. But a terror from God, it is evident, fell upon them.

What IT says

• Joh 2:14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there.
  Joh 2:15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables.
  Joh 2:16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, "Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade."

The greek word in the KJV translated 'and' is NOT the normal word 'kai'. It's the greek word "te"

The context here, "them" refers to the antecedent. The antecedent is "those who were selling loxen and sheep and pigeons and the money changers sitting there"

[HeavenlyOne]

I just wish LR's questions had been answered.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Sounds like he did

Joh 2:14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there.
Joh 2:15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables.
Joh 2:16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, "Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade."

None of this driving and whipping business has anything to do with the point I was making in the sentence from which it was extracted.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I didn't see anyone label StMatt here too spiritual nor worse than an infidel for his beliefs.

It's was done when all those who believe as he does were labeled "infidels." No names were included when this was said, but no names were omitted either.