Isaiah 3 and jewelry... - Page 75

rdp · #**741** 08-19-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Jesus would affirm the same, or maybe borrow the illustration.

The weightier matters are of the heart, the internal motive, the inside. The valuable part of a man is not where he comes from, who is father is, how much money he has, what he looks like -- it's what he is, determined by his heart. Our richness and value, our investments, they should all be based on the redeemed heart within us.

Those ways you use gold and silver -- sure, they can be used figuratively.

Let me hasten to afirm that I certainly believe the inward is more important than the outward...I just don't think we can call for such a radical separation between the two.

rdp · #**742** 08-19-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Oh no, he came back with the burgundy (a type of sacrifice)

Consistency is not uniformity. I would argue that I do use consistency. I'm shocked that was your response.

The NT is very much natural and spiritual. I'm not following. Where do you get this from? The Kingdom of God on Earth goal was the same for our predecessors. Do you mean, the concept of a literal Kingdom is replaced by a spiritual one? I can follow that. But make no mistake, the Kingdom we are part of is very much physical. The love we profess, is very much to be acted out in literal ways today. The abstracts that make us cry, also fuel us to act right now in the present. "Thy will be done... on earth as it is in heaven."

I would agree w/ much of this, but simply add that my initial point remains. The NT is primarily a spiritual kingdom, vs. the OT which was physical [see 2 Cor. 3]. "For the kingdom of God IS NOT MEAT AND DRINK [i.e., natural things], but righteousness, peace, and joy IN THE HOLY SPIRIT [i.e., spiritual matters]." Thus, my point stands.

I'm glad you spot the metaphor in that we are priests. Of course, I could do what you did to Jeffrey, and just keep repeating that that scripture is plain and literal, and demand you not compromise from the clear and plain reading of it, afterward citing some Golden Rule of something or another

But I'm glad you see it's a metaphor.

The things that were a type of Christ are fulfilled in Him. The jewels on the priests were typical of Him carrying His people on His Heart & shoulders...thus they were fulfilled in Him, much like the sabbath, PRIESTS, etc. BUT, there are also numerous Scriptures in the OT which explicitly speak against the decorative ornamentation [which wasn't the point of the priests anyway].

Thus, the attention that has been paid to the priests also need to be rendered to these verses which speak very, very negative of jewelry. Ex. 33, Is. 3, Deut. 7:25 [this is a big one that I'd like to see dealt w/, primarily the plural pronouns "their" & "them"].

In some ways, it's a reality. What does a priest do? They offer up sacrifice. They interact with God directly. That role is fulfilled in Jesus, our High Priest, and we can continue to have access today -- so we are, in many ways, "priests unto God."

As a type, the sparkle and bling of the priest garments (representative of their sacred affiliation with God's glory) are most certainly fulfilled AS A TYPE in downpayment of the Spirit. ("we hold these treasures in earthen vessels")

Do you not see this? "We have this TREASURE I-N earthen vessels." Not OUTSIDE, but INSIDE as I've been saying all along.

However, that does not negate the use of jewelry in a positive sense in the OT, nor make it's use negative because of a anagalous type. The type itself doesn't even make it negative, it showed it's fulfillment -- and continues it's positive identification.

Then so does Polygamy. If you appeal to the NT for amendment on this issue, then that's the same thing we do w/ I Tim. 2 & I Ptr. 3. "not the wearing of gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel."

I do appreciate your spirit though [along w/ Sam's], it's a refreshing thing w/ this bunch!

Truthseeker · #**743** 08-19-2010, 06:46 PM

25The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therin: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God. Deut 7:25

Ok why is gold wrong here but ok on the priest? Motive? Purpose maybe. The above is speaking about gold/silver used with idolatry.

rdp · #**744** 08-20-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

25The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therin: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God. Deut 7:25

Ok why is gold wrong here but ok on the priest? Motive? Purpose maybe. The above is speaking about gold/silver used with idolatry.

The functional jewels on the priests served a purpose relative to Israel, sort of like a signet ring I suppose one could say. What "purpose," other than decorative ornamentation does jewelry serve today? Spare me the wedding band since it's purely heathen & Romish as even a scanty view of its history demonstrates. And a leather banded watch [if one MUST wear one] will perform the same purpose as those flashy, shiny gold & silver ones.

This text indicates that God did not want His covenantal people imitating the idolatrous nations surrounding His people....sort of like the world today & their veneration of sports, jewelry, TV, etc. ad nauseum. It's the principle of outward separation because of inward dedication.

Truthseeker · #**745** 08-20-2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp

The functional jewels on the priests served a purpose relative to Israel, sort of like a signet ring I suppose one could say. What "purpose," other than decorative ornamentation does jewelry serve today? Spare me the wedding band since it's purely heathen & Romish as even a scanty view of its history demonstrates. And a leather banded watch [if one MUST wear one] will perform the same purpose as those flashy, shiny gold & silver ones.

This text indicates that God did not want His covenantal people imitating the idolatrous nations surrounding His people....sort of like the world today & their veneration of sports, jewelry, TV, etc. ad nauseum. It's the principle of outward separation because of inward dedication.

Bible says the priest were decked out for beauty and glory.

Your right about wedding band coming form pagan origin kinda like christmass, easter etc...

I think it would be even more holy is fishing line was used for watches instead of leather.

Truthseeker · #**746** 08-20-2010, 09:31 AM

2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty.

rdp · #**747** 08-20-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Bible says the priest were decked out for beauty and glory.

Which forshadowed the "glory" & "beauty" of Christ's Priesthood. BTW, are you suggesting that, based upon the OT priests, we can justifiably be decked from head to toe in elaborate jewels?? How then, do you obey "NOT with gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel"??

Your right about wedding band coming form pagan origin kinda like christmass, easter etc...

Yes, which is exactly why we do not partake of these "holi-days". They are products of the "Syncretical Fallacy."

I think it would be even more holy is fishing line was used for watches instead of leather.

Or, how about none at all !?!?

rdp · #**748** 08-20-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty.

Can we therefore justifiably be decked from head to toe in elaborate jewels in the NT economy?

Truthseeker · #**749** 08-20-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp

Can we therefore justifiably be decked from head to toe in elaborate jewels in the NT economy?

Not saying that, but you have refered to gold being on the inside of the temple relating that to we are the temple of God today to support no jewely. Well, if we are gonna use the OT temple with gold on inside to prove a point for today then why not priest being decked out on outside used aa a point for today?? We are priest as well as the temple of God. You says it's foreshadow not to take literal for today, then why use gold inside temple as a foreshadow to not to be taken literal.

acerrak · #**750** 08-20-2010, 05:07 PM

thou a wedding ring or rings in general may have a pagen origin, it does not mean they are pagen today. Just because something was used in a way 3000 years ago doesnt mean it is applicable today.

I.e. 50 years ago if i said i was gay it would mean i was happy, but today if i use this expression it means i sleep with the same sex. so thus we dont use the term to explain happiness.

also if we consider rings pagen, then we put Christ in a place were He is using a pagen atribute to describe the Love of the lost son comming Home. luke 15:22

a wedding ring is not what weds a couple together but it is a symbol or a covenant symbol between you and your wife and not just a symbol but also to show that you are married. there is absolutly nothing wrong with a wedding ring.